Gravel advice for driveway sought

[smfcpacfp]

Below are pictures of the driveway to my new pole building from my old driveway, about 120 feet or so. I used to tell people that my property was like beach sand, but in reality it is a combination of sand and finely ground clay according to a well driller friend of mine. It dawned on me that it wasn't beach sand when I realized that heavy vehicles could drive on it without sinking, and after a hard rain I noticed that water was standing on the surface of the area that I disturbed to build my pole building.

As you all know there are many kinds of gravel that you can buy for a driveway. Most people around here use something they call 22a which is mixture of sand, finely ground clay and 3/4" rock. They also have 21a which has more rock and less sand and clay, and 23a which has more clay and sand, and less rock. I could also just buy straight rock and they also sell crushed asphalt from torn up roadways with some 22a mixed in. My neighbor has the last product and likes it, but it has tendancy to allow a little puddling of water with heavy rain. I should also mention that their is a slight grade on my roadway, but since there is so much sand in the soil there is never really any worry about washouts or ground saturation (i.e., mud). I always like to tell people if there is flooding at my place, you better have your ark built.

I was thinking about using the 21a which has more rock than clay and sand, since my soil is already composed of clay and sand, or maybe one load of the 21a followed by a load of the crushed asphalt . What advice could you give me? I have about 30 hours befor the deliver the material.


Below are pictures of the driveway to my new pole building from my old driveway, about 120 feet or so. I used to tell people that my property was like beach sand, but in reality it is a combination of sand and finely ground clay according to a well driller friend of mine. It dawned on me that it wasn't beach sand when I realized that heavy vehicles could drive on it without sinking, and after a hard rain I noticed that water was standing on the surface of the area that I disturbed to build my pole building.

As you all know there are many kinds of gravel that you can buy for a driveway. Most people around here use something they call 22a which is mixture of sand, finely ground clay and 3/4" rock. They also have 21a which has more rock and less sand and clay, and 23a which has more clay and sand, and less rock. I could also just buy straight rock and they also sell crushed asphalt from torn up roadways with some 22a mixed in. My neighbor has the last product and likes it, but it has tendancy to allow a little puddling of water with heavy rain. I should also mention that their is a slight grade on my roadway, but since there is so much sand in the soil there is never really any worry about washouts or ground saturation (i.e., mud). I always like to tell people if there is flooding at my place, you better have your ark built.

​

 

[PILOON]

The more drives I see and the more I read, I like the geotextile being installed under the finish as it prevents the oozing or migration of the sublayers to the surface.

Also from personal usage I really prefer crushed or recycled asphalt for the top coating as with heat and compaction it binds to form a sealed roadbed.
I did this some 13 years back and it served me well and prevented erosion on my steeper slopes. Plain crushed was always being washed down the slopes.

 

[EddieWalker]

Clay is silt. It is expandable and very prone to movement. There are dozens of types of clay materials, and each has it's own characteristics. Some moves allot more then others. The reason clay is so good at lining ponds is that it expands, or swells up when wet, which helps to form a water tight seal. This is also why some clay materials are so bad for building on. Then the opposite happens when clay dries out, it gets smaller. This is when you see the cracks in the ground. This is just as bad for buildings as the swelling is. Both are movements that the soil makes due to water or lack of water.

Clay is always moving. Having clay mixed in with rock for a road base screams out to me as a big mistake. Are you sure they are mixing clay in with the rock? For road base to be the most effective, it needs to interlock with itself to form a sold mass. The type of rock, how it's broken up and the sizes of the rock all contribute to how much strength it will have.

In areas with poor rock, you need more rock to get the job done. In areas with poor soil conditions, you need more rock. If it freezes and you have snow to deal with, I don't have a clue how much you need. It is a factor that you need to find out.

If you do not know these things, you will either buy the wrong type of rock, or not buy enough of it. In these situations, it will fail on you prematurely and you have wasted your money.

In my area, road base is limestone rock that is crushed down to rock that is 2 to 3 inches on down to fines. It's all mixed together with every size possible. Nothing else is added to it. The rock has jagged edges, which is important in compacting it so that it all locks together.

To know what you need, you could ask your supplier what the county or city uses for their roads. There is only one product that they will use because it's the only thing that does the job. While there are all sorts of other products out there to buy, and some are very cheap, they are not what you need. Just because so and so said that it worked for them, doesn't mean anything to you. Some peoples standards are lower, some have perfect soil, and some just don't realize that a better product will work better. If your supplier is wishy washy, or trying to sell what he has on hand, or offering you a good deal on something other then road base, then hold off and do some more investigating. I've talked to guys from Texas Department of Transportation to find out where they get their materials, who supplies them and what they are using. I've spoken to them along the sides of the road, had two of them come to my place when doing a driveway, and been to their office to talk to their engineer. My guess is that you have a Department of Transportation that is in charge of your roads too. In every case, I've found them to be very helpful and knowledgable when asked about road building. For me, it's a huge part of developing my land to get it right, so I took the time to learn what I could from those who do it for a living.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[smfcpacfp]

Already I got some some great advice, so thanks guys. I think maybe I will postpone the delivery of the material for a little while and give it some further thought since you guys have given me some things to think about.

I have no idea what geotextile is or where you would get it, but I will check that out. I assume it some kind of membrane.

Eddie, you and I are thinking alike. I am rock poor. There is no rock in my soil at all. My soil has more sand that clay (silt). I don't care how dry it is, there will be no cracks. Likewise after torrential rains the ground is just as solid as it was before the rain. There will be no soggy, or muddy areas. there is no heaving when the ground freezes, it doesn't change. It does get hard however. On average, we have 42 days when the temperature gets below zero each year

 

[EddieWalker]

Your soil sounds like it's PERFECT for building on.

The fabric is used for low areas that need fill, or soil that is not compacted enough. It's purpose is to keep the rock from sinking into the soil when road preperation isn't what it should be. Think of those jobs where you need a road, but it's wet out, or you have to go across a low area, but don't have the means or the time to build up a proper crown. In those conditions, the fabric will help compensate for this and keep the rock from sinking into the mud or soft soil.

I've never seen it used on public roads before laying down gravel. I have seen it used on roads before appling asphault. In those situations, it's used to compensate for a road that is already cracking and moving. Instead of tearing down the road to the base and rebuilding it, they are relying on the fabric to support the new layer.

Most of all, it is another one of those things that seems to be used more in some areas, and not at all in others. While doing your research on what is used by the pros, see what they say about a layer of fabric. It would never hurt to have it, but if it's not needed, it's just an additional expense that could be used to buy more gravel.

Dirt is a science, and only those in your area will actualy know anything about what it takes to build in your area.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[beenthere]

What I see in the pics is flat sand and no crown or ditches for water to run off and away. Water is the enemy, and getting a good roadbed that stays dry is most important.
Rain that will run off and away will not stay around to "float" your sand or let your tires drop in and cause ruts.
What I would recommend would be taking care of the water drainage first. Then put down a gravel, textile, or re-processed cap on the dry roadbed.
Just my thoughts having dealt with similar circumstances in the sand country of central WI.

 

[CowwFace]

Hey smfcpacfp,

I'd say you got it easy! Throw in some persnikity neighbor's complaining about the mud and then you'll have my life! hehehe

Listen to BeenThere and Eddie, they helped me a bunch.

Now that geotextile option.. I dident' know we were on the list with Rockafell's <grin>.

Phill

 

[o2batsea]

Do not use textile. It's awful stuff and usually unnecessary. It looks like you have a pretty good base there.

On the Eastern Shore we use oyster shells. They make a darn pretty driveway.

 

[tallyho8]

Almost everyone in our area used clam shells for parking lots and driveways until they banned dredging for clam shells in Lake Ponchartrain.

 

[jenkinsph]

Almost everyone in our area used clam shells for parking lots and driveways until they banned dredging for clam shells in Lake Ponchartrain.

Sorry to interrupt the thread but why did they ban the dredging?

No clam shell industry now, and the oyster beds on the east bank ruined by fresh water are they nuts or what?


Back to the post I am in 100% agreement with Eddie on this.


Steve