Concrete Apron @ horse barn entry?

[Tex5String]

TX weather! Following the 2009 drought, the winter rains have made our horse pasture a lake, and the mud in front of the barn door leading to the pasture is a foot deep and ten feet across. Needless to say, the horses don't like to go through it morning and evening, and it is nearly impossible for a biped like me to pull the manure cart out to the manure pile. After the weather dries up, I'm thinking of putting in a concrete apron in front of this door, curved upper surface to channel the water flow across this end of the barn, allowing for a couple of inches of soil buildup from erosion, which I can thin periodically to restore the water flow. The rise from the water channel to the barn floor is about 6 inches. I have to make it 10 feet long to match the barn door, but I want to make it as narrow as possible to keep the horses from feeling they have insecure footing entering/exiting the barn.

I would appreciate any and all suggestions: gravel layer underneath(how thick?); concrete layer(w/ rebar? what spacing? how thick, etc.?). I might drive a tractor or truck out this barn door also -- need to bear that weight.
My concrete experience is limited to putting in fence corners.
Thanks, guys; collectively y'all have the experience of several PhD's!

 

[dave1949]

Before going with concrete, is there a low area outside your fences you could drain the water to? Not on the surface but using a french drain. Seems like a pad/apron of concrete will move the wet spot, not eliminate it.
Dave.

 

[Ken]

Not worked with hores but dairy cattle same conditions. The concrete should be ridged so there feet can make contact. ice will cause slippage and broken legs or do the splits and ruin the hips. keeping a layer of sand will help to walk on concrete.
French drains will fill with manure and sand quickly unusable. in front where you are having sink holes a load of 2" gravel will allow the drainage away to lower location. and ice would not be a problem.
Animals and mud go together .
ken

 

[dave1949]

Not worked with hores but dairy cattle same conditions. The concrete should be ridged so there feet can make contact. ice will cause slippage and broken legs or do the splits and ruin the hips. keeping a layer of sand will help to walk on concrete.
French drains will fill with manure and sand quickly unusable. in front where you are having sink holes a load of 2" gravel will allow the drainage away to lower location. and ice would not be a problem.
Animals and mud go together .
ken

Ken, sorry I have to disagree. A properly constructed french drain will not fill with sand or manure. You do need somewhere for the water to run to. If the area is flat, it's not a solution for this problem. There are millions of basement walls and swales that are kept dry with french drains, they work when correctly constructed. I gather they have a bad reputation in the South from other posts I have read.

A mud hole indicates clay or silt soils which get packed hard by the hooves creating a hardpan layer as it dries and turns to mud again when saturated. Step one would be to replace that soil in the concentrated travel area with something that drains: gravel, sand, or a medium aggregate; which ever is friendliest to horses.

If you do end up pouring concrete, compacting those materials will make a good base, much better than clay or silts. The concrete apron would need less long term maintenance than good draining fill - which will eventually have to be refreshed as it loads up with manure and bedding materials.

I see horse/cattle sheds around here that have fairly constant mudholes in the doorways. Many of them were not sited high enough when built, relative to the surrounding grade, to allow drainage to fan out and disperse around them.
Dave.

 

[mikim]

Ain't this weather jus' great?!! I was able to get the tractor out just this last week and now here it comes again...snow?... can't get anything done. What I would probably do is dig out 6" of what you have there and lay in road base ....I'm guessing you have clay 6-18" down? The road base I get is a mix of fines and up to 3/4" round stone so it packs pretty well. It would be a lot cheaper than the concrete and if it doesn't work - you can always use it as a base for the concrete later. Like the other poster said - cut 1/4 - 1/2 deep furrows in the wet concrete for solid footing. (take a round stick and drag it across) - Course the freezing problem isn't that big a problem for us. ---- except maybe today ....snow?....where am I?

 

[Tex5String]

Thanks for all the advice, gentlemen. I am located near the Guadalupe River, and my pretty flat 5 acres is river-bottom gumbo all the way down. that makes me think a French drain would not work.
Unfortunately, I did not seek any advice before buying this place or locating my horse barn. A significant amount of drainage flows across in front of the horse exit/entrance, and relocating the barn door to any other side of the barn would just move the same problem with it. Now I'm thinking a concrete apron with traction scoring; even if it silts up again from the flow, the grooves should provide pretty secure footing.
Thank you again to all who had the patience to respond!

 

[zzvyb6]

I put a concrete apron at the back of my horse barn and it solved the mud problem completely. I also put in enough pad so that their bunk feeder sits on it with 6 feet of cement on either side of it. This lets them eat off the cement instead of the dirt for any hay that spills out. I made the cement myself with a 3pt mixer, using 4'x4' forms made from 2x4s. I did not use rebar reinforcement. Just used plenty of cement and its stronger than any commercially available juice. I run trucks, tractors mowers etc across it and it has never cracked. I did NOT groove it and would recommend that you smooth it with a broom only. If you groove it, the horses standing there will wear out their hooves very quickly, especially if they feed on it. They will like standing on it and when stamping their feet to chase flys, the grooves will chip their feet. Steel shoes will be especially slippery on grooved cement (less contact area). Its a lot better to clean off snow if its smooth too. The ponies will appreciate that. In mud season, cleaning it off with a hose is very practical. Best thing to pay attention to is gutters and downspouts. Keep the water away from the door and feeding areas. Keep the apron height and inch or two below the aiselway elevation so water does not run into the barn. Its makes a good door stop, too. That's my 2 cents

 

[Stampeder]

I have a 30' X 50' barn with four box stalls, horse wash bay, bathroom for two legged creatures and tack room. I two roll up doors, one at either end of the barn. Both front and rear entrances (with 10' roll up doors) have 12' X 12' concrete pads in front of them. Both pads are broom finished.
We do not have a mud problem because of these pads in front of the doors. Whenever it is cold and rainy, or more recently snowing here in East Texas we run our horses and donkey into the barn.
The pads work great and there is no footing problem for the horses or donkey.

Go with the concrete pad you will thank yourself every time you run the horses in.

Glenn.