Culvert Project

   / Culvert Project #21  
Wow! Harv, neat job, but you've got a lot more energy and stamina that I do. I know where there are several culverts that have the ends shored up like Scruffy said; just stack bags of ready mix, but never anyone who filled sandbags like that. And lifting the front wheels to put weight on the bucket to back drag that way is the only time I wish I could use brake steering.

Bird
 
   / Culvert Project #22  
Harv, I have really enjoyed your posts and pics of your project...quick question. Ballpark, how much does each piece of that culvert cost you? What are the dimensions that you are using?
 
   / Culvert Project
  • Thread Starter
#23  
ejb -

I had very little choice as to where I bought my pipe, so I'm not sure I want to know if the prices were any good. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

I bought three 12-inchers at $6.47/ft = $64.70 per 10 foot section and two 18-inchers at $9.48/ft = $94.80 per 10 foot section.

The metal pipes were available in 10 or 20-foot sections and the plastic was available in 20-foot sections only (although plastic is easy to cut yourself). I don't remember the numbers, but plastic was more expensive, at least from this dealer.

HarvSig.gif
 
   / Culvert Project
  • Thread Starter
#24  
It was actually a very busy weekend. After culvert #1 was usable, I moved right on to culvert #2. /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

This one required very little digging 'cuz there's a natural channel right where I want the culvert. It did take some hand-digging and the removal of some 12 to 18-inch boulders, but that's why we have big heavy pry bars, ain't it?

This one is quite a bit bigger than the first, but I wanted to keep it fairly shallow so's I wouldn't have to test my tiltmeter every time I drove over the finished culvert. That meant going with 2 side-by-side pipes instead of one larger one. Note -- for proper backfill support, I had to leave a gap between them so I could get in there and do my tamping act.

Did some rock work on the face of this one in addition to the sand/concrete bags. Time finally ran out just as I got to covering the pipes, so I just dumped a few buckets of fill on top and left it there for next time (which looks like it will be tomorrow - Wednesday).

Looking straight across the culvert you can see where I'm going to have to do that trail-blazing I've been talking about. I have mixed feelings about that chore.

One observation about tractorin' in general -- for all the cool things you can do with these machines, I'm most grateful for their function as the world's greatest wheelbarrows. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

For you download gluttons, there's more picts of this project in the scrapbook.

HarvSig.gif
 
   / Culvert Project #25  
FYI, I just priced plasic culverts today by phone.

12 inch by 20 feet double wall pipe was 85.95 at one supplier and 100 at another place. Single was was 72.95 at the cheaper place and did not have the smooth inside wall.

This is in the Triangle of NC.

Hope this helps....
Dan McCarty
 
   / Culvert Project #26  
I am also in the middle of a culvert project to bridge my creek.

I bought plastic pipe. It only comes in 20' sections. My 24" diameter cost $251. 30" is $400. 10" is $67. 8" is $44. I didnt price any other sizes. Of course, I'm buying in Fairfield County, Connecticut, the weathiest county in the country. I hope its cheaper elsewhere.

I am laying two 10' sections squashed side-by-side to each other in a creek bed that is about 40" deep, and has water flowing in it. EEK, this plastic pipe FLOATS, providing new and exciting installation challenges. I am going to be ordering a processed limestone fill with 3/4 inch gravel in it, based on what I read here in the "Colvert?" thread. Costs $10 per ton plus a $60 delivery charge. I don't have a clue how much I need, but I bet I spend more on shipping than on material. Plan on putting some top soil on top like Harv.

I bought a tamper and a 72" pry bar today. Figure I can use the bar to rod the fill and to pry boulders. Since the side-by-side culverts are already squished together and against the relatively vertical walls of the creek, it is going to be difficult to rod fill between the two pipes and between the pipe and the creek walls, especially with the water flowing and trying to wash everything away. Am thinking of using sand bags or concrete bags somehow.

Glenn
 
   / Culvert Project #27  
Harv, re those bucket forks in your pictures: Do you like them? Have you tried them to lift and carry brush? How long to get on and off? Where did you get them? How much? Did you ever locate the bucket rake that Del had pictures of?

Thanks, Glenn
 
   / Culvert Project
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Glenn -

Sounds like you're on your way to some experiences I can relate to. From what you've said, though, I feel compelled to share some tidbits I've learned from my own research (anybody with actual experience, feel free to intervene).

You're certainly right about plastic pipe floating, and from what I've read, that's a big problem especially with the larger pipe (greater than 12 inches). Big loud caution here -- it's notjust an installation problem! Once the pipe is buried and the creek level rises with the rains, the buoyancy factor is tremendous and it can burst right up through your roadway. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Somewhere I saw mention of using proper "anchors" on HDPE pipe where floatation could occur, but I never saw a picture or description of what they were talking about. Might be worth a phone call or two.

Also, with plastic orsteel the pipe strength is derived from proper backfill. Only reinforced concrete pipe can support vehicle-sized loads with only "casual" backfill. The rule of thumb is to have at least one pipe diameter of fill on either side of the pipe (I'm cutting it a little close on that score myself). If your pipe is butted up against a "normal" soil or clay, it may eventually deform. Boulders and rocks should be kept away from the pipe, since they will cause localized pressures and cause detents into the pipe, degrading your water flow.

I didn't find any specific information on laying side-by-side pipes, but again, the strength of the pipe is a factor of how well it is supported, particularly below the centerline. That's why the backfill material must be evenly compressed in layers by tamping. I'm concerned that if your pipes are "squished" together (I love technical jargon), they will not have proper support in the most crucial area.

As for the fill itself, I think it was right here on this board in one of the culvert/colvert threads that I learned about the crushed limestone. It seems to have different names depending on who you're talking to, but the important thing is to make sure it contains plenty of fines (sand) in the mix. That's what allows it to compact so firmly. I can tell you that as I tamped it down I could see and feel it compacting down to a very solid material. I placed layers of about two inches and tamped each one down to little more than one inch, at which point it started to feel like I was walking on concrete. Amazing stuff.

One of the early posts on this subject referred to a page with a diagram that I used as part of my guidline (see attachment).

The last factor for a successful culvert, from what I've heard local experts say around here, is the "overflow". That is to say that you must assume that sooner or later the creek flow will be more than your culvert can handle. The secret then lies in providing a non-destructive path for that water to take. I haven't completely dealt with this part yet, but my plan is to provide something like a swale at just the right level, leading off from the upstream end of the culvert. Here's a sketch of what I had in mind.

To tell the truth, folks, I'm sure my culverts will be okay 99% of the time, but I'm worried they aren't going to survive the inevitable torrential rains that come once or twice each year. Any words of wisdom for me and Glenn?

HarvSig.gif
 
   / Culvert Project #29  
Harv, with or without your swale, there will come a time (as you've mentioned) when the capability of the culvert will not meet the demands placed upon it. In constructing your swale you have the choice of constructing out of natural materials or use your crushed lime mixed with sand and concrete to make a more solid base for the overflow. The whole point is to avoid the washout that may occur, without overkill and cost. The one thing I learned in North Western California, and Southwestern Oregon, is to initially place an adequate culvert and ditching in the first time around. Plan on your large storm runoff, and don't worry to greatly about the storm of the decade or a 100 year storm. Those get too expensive to prepare for, particularly on the type of road you are constructing.
 
   / Culvert Project
  • Thread Starter
#30  
Glenn -

About the bucket forks --

<font color=blue>Do you like them?</font color=blue>

I love them to pieces. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Handiest bang for the buck so far.

<font color=blue> Have you tried them to lift and carry brush?</font color=blue>

A little, and they worked great. I'll be doing a lot more of that pretty soon.

<font color=blue>How long to get on and off?</font color=blue>

Less than a minute for both forks. (See attachment)

<font color=blue>Where did you get them? </font color=blue>

I just told my tractor broker ('Miracle Mike') I wanted them and they arrived with the tractor. They're Gearmore forks, so they should be pretty easy to come by.

<font color=blue>How much? </font color=blue>

I paid $350 through Miracle Mike. Brand new.

I got the smallest of the four available sizes. They weigh 90 lbs. apiece (one reason for getting the small ones), but the built-in handles make them quite easy to handle. They are 2 x 3 x 32 inches and have a lift capacity of 1,000 pounds (more than my loader).

I did connect with the bucket rake manufacturer, as I mentioned in a previous post, but when neither Miracle Mike nor 2 tractor dealers I talked to had never seen or heard of them, I got cold feet. The $600 price tag didn't help any, either.

Fact is, I really I wish I had the bucket rake for my trail blazing adventure the next couple of days, but I'm gonna just get familiar with what I do have and keep the rake in the back of my mind.

Feel free to get one and let me know what you think. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

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