Mixing concrete in a wheel barrow the easy way

[wroughtn_harv]

Professional fence men have been mixing good concrete for decades and decades out of a wheelbarrow. A decent crew, foreman and helper, can lay out, dig, and set sixty to eighty posts in a day if the digging isn't horrible. That equates to about two to three yards of sand and gravel mixed with portland cement in a wheel barrow.

There is a secret. It's not a big one, just one.

First important thing is the wheel barrow. A construction six cubic foot one works best. That's because the sides are steep and it can hold a considerable amount.

The next thing is the mix of sand and gravel. If you go to your supply yard where you buy your sand and gravel chances are you can get remix. Remix is where the yard takes a yard of sand and mixes it with a yard of gravel. That way you don't have to be digging from two piles and trying to remember the count of what and which. A couple of points on the mix. If you have too much sand it will be physically harder to mix. But if you have too much rock you won't have good concrete just like if you have too much sand your concrete will not be strong at all. I suggest half inch or smaller gravel. It's easier to mix.

I use a square point shovel. I lay out five shovels full of rock and sand in the bottom of the wheel barrow. This is usually leveled out to some degree intentionally. Then I like to use the square point shovel and break open the bag of portland cement. It's sort of a cutting the head off of a snake affair. I want to break it open so that I can stick the shovel inside the bag. I don't open it length wise. I then take a heaping, all the other materials were loaded on the shovel heaping, shovel full of portland and I spread it out as evenly as possible over the sand and gravel.

I repeat this process until the wheelbarrow is full. Now full is different for different folks. Full for me and other professionals is heaping. I'm talking the stuff is almost falling off the sides, front, and back of the wheel barrow.

There needs to be a warning about that mentioned here. A full six cubic foot wheel barrow is going to weigh in the neighborhood of four hundred to five hundred pounds. If you're not used to handling it the only thing I can think that might be comparable would be putting on roller blades and walking along the beach at the ocean. You're gonna look silly and chances are things are going to get messy. So if you're a rookie start with a three quarter full one and then put in more as you get experienced.

I use five gallon buckets of water versus the hose and sprayer. The reason is control. I can put in exactly how much I want instantly. With the hose it's a guessing game. You can have not enough, more hose handling, or too much, add sand and gravel and cement.

You get a decent round pointed D handle shovel. Make sure it's clean. If there's part of a label, some rust, or old concrete on it you will be working twice as hard and getting half as much done. I've come to believe profanity came with fence men working with dirty shovels. Of course those observing the noise making thought it was so cute that profanity is as commonplace as bad taste these days.

I take the shovel and gently, remember it's heaping, make a small bowl at the front of the wheel barrow. I pour some water, quart or just a bit more, in the bowl. I gently mix this with the shovel. When it's done I ladle it out. I now have a larger bowl with which to operate. I pour in more water and mix more. This process is repeated always taking from the front of the wheel barrow and only mixing what I can use. I'm cutting into it sorta like eating a layered cake going from the front to the back.

There are some secrets to using the shovel for mixing. Where the professional has an advantage is he's done it wrong often enough that he doesn't have to that anymore.

The biggest mistake rookies make is trying to all the work with their shoulders and arms. If you do it right at the end of the day you should feel like you've done about a thousand too many sit ups. It's a whole body event. I like to place my thigh against the front of the wheel barrow and pull through to to myself. I push the mix back with the shovel without lifting it out of the wheel barrow and then taking another bite pull it back towards me.

I might should had ought to point out something right here and now. Rookies who get to work with me the first time don't get all this advice. I show them how I want the concrete layered into the wheel barrow. I then mix a batch or two and then hand the D handle over to them. They then go through the learning process.

It usually works like this. They see my slow methodical mixing and assume it's because I'm old. So they jump on it and before they've done a wheel barrow they're sucking air. I just point out that I want it drier or wetter or more of it quicker.

When their eyes start to cross I step in acting like I'm really disappointed and do twice as much as they have in half the time and it's perfect every shovel full. They will have not taken notes, they fail the test. This will be repeated until I get just down right frustrated or I see that look in their eye that says they're ready to listen. They then get the lesson you just got.

I can rock and roll with a decent helper with this method. Twenty two years ago I was faster. My dad was my age. I had to hustle to stay ahead of him with him mixing for me.

Yeah, for me the mixing is a trip. I like it. It feels good to work. But there is also this great truth that I can't defeat. My father was a lot more a man when he was my age than I am.

 

[BB_TX]

Harvey - Sounds like you would be a fun person to work with or for. Attitude can make a workday enjoyable or pure drudgery.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Thanks Bill, but I'm afraid that isn't the most popular response./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[MarkV]

Thanks for the lesson W-Harv. It never accrued to me that you could stock the materials in a wheelbarrow and mix smaller than the whole batch at a time. Can I assume the same technique would work with the premixed bags of concrete? As a point of reference, about how many posts can you set with one wheelbarrow full of mix? How deep do you set posts and how full do you fill the postholes? Thanks again for the lesson.

MarkV

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Morning Mark,

You're correct to assume that you can do the same thing with the premixed bags.

I'm definately in the minority when it comes to post depth and size of hole. I go for at least an eight inch diameter but my personal standard for everyday stuff is twelve. I like thirty six but I occasionally do thirty. I haven't done a job where the I did the holes at twenty four in a coon's age.

I happen to like fencing. I think there are compromises we can make in the interest of economising. I just don't think we need to do the cutting where it's vital. A well set post is vital.

 

[bellweather]

Thanks for the detailed lesson. I would have never figured out a method like that. I guess that's the difference between the weekend warrior and the guy who does something to earn a living and needs to make his job more efficient and productive. One question....when the posts finally need to be replaced, how do you remove the stump from the footing?
Thanks again.

 

[rancar]

Harv...

Very interesting lesson on mixing concrete....but, a couple of quick questions. What are your thoughts regarding cost effectiveness and time efficiency? Purchasing the pre-mix 90 lb concrete bags from places like Home Depot when they have sales or mixing it oneself? What, if any, are the cost savings in mixing own mix vis-a-vis bagged mix, especially on smaller jobs? Also, the time element....is it easier and faster to just pour those 90 lb bags into the wheelbarrow or just do the mixing of all ingredients oneself? If you've done both, comment from personal experience on these two methods of pouring concrete would be appreciated. Thanks!

.....Bob

 

[MDNick]

Harv,

Having never mixed my own concrete, from scratch that is, I gather the recipe is 5 parts gravel/sand (mixed 1:1) and 1 part cement and enough water to get it to work. Correct? I assume it is quite a bit cheaper than redi-mix in the bag. And as was mentioned in another thread, don't need to protect so much material from the elements.

I have some apron's/approaches for my garage to pour. $87 a yard around here from the truck. Not needing to do it all at once, I wonder about making it myself. I'd think it's cheaper, but unless it's 1/2 the price or less, I'd about rather pay the truck.

Forgot to mention, I do have a smallish electric cement mixer.

Nick

 

[herbenus]

I'm very interested in the cost savings as well, as I was planning on starting to mix my own (with a mixer though, sorry). I'm toying with the idea of only buying cement and gravel, and using sand out of a pond I'm digging. But the sand is not as coarse as what's usually used, so may not work good. But I still need to test this. Maybe someone has experience with finer sand?

 

[wroughtn_harv]

<font color="blue">when the posts finally need to be replaced, how do you remove the stump from the footing?
</font>

You pull the whole thing out of the ground and then you toss it. It ain't easy. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

There are many factors to consider when deciding which method to use.

First is the cost of the sand and gravel. Where my dad lives in Arizona it's about five dollars a ton washed and loaded into your vehicle. Here in North Texas the same stuff runs thirty to forty dollars a ton.

Figure a yard of material at forty dollars here, six bags of portland cement at six dollars a bag and the seventy dollars a yard from the redimix truck is a deal and a half. Unless of course you're looking at needing just a yard and there is the good old four yard minimum.

But where the sand and gravel is cheap then the rationale to mix yourself becomes more attractive.

A yard from the truck, seventy dollars. Compare this to say sixty for buying sand, gravel, and cement, and doing it yourself. Sacrete at two forty nine for six tenths of cubic foot works out to a hundred and twelve dollars a yard. Maximizer works out to about a hundred and fifteen dollars a yard based upon four twenty nine per cubic foot.

The advantages of using the truck goes beyond the price. When you have a larger job the first mixed loads setting up at a different pace than the later ones will not only make you work six times as hard. It will make you look like you didn't care how it turned out.

But my father did tons of sidewalk and driveway from a mixer just a couple of years ago. He'd set up his forms in the evening before. He'd pour and finish in the morning. Then move the forms over and reset them. Next morning he'd pour the next area again.

He was in his early seventies at the time. But a couple of words of warning need to be put in here. First is he has the ability to being hauling butt while looking while he's out for a stroll. You can never ever judge his rate of speed by how fast or slow he's moving. Unwasted motion is an amazing force.

He also knows how to form up his concrete where it survives a non monolithic pour. The other important thing is he is in sandy stable soil that isn't going to move like clay or frost heaving soil does.

Dad is also the sort that thinks turning over the garden with a shovel isn't inappropriate to make it easier on the tiller. So doing things manually is natural to him.

If you're of that inclination and have the time a lot of concrete can be done and a lot faster and better than most folks suppose possible.

Using creek sand isn't a bad thing.

If you're sure it's washed well and doesn't contain dirt. Dirt in your concrete is not a good thing. It's sorta like having no grease in your bearings. It will get you sooner than later.