Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ?

   / Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ? #1  

ITHINKICAN

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
374
Location
Fort Bend, TX
Tractor
Kubota
We have power on our land. We'd like to plug our 26' travel trailer "in" so we can run air conditioning, the refrigerator and let the boys watch dvd's. Hopefully this can be done without hiring an electrician - money is tight.

Here are 4 photos of what we have...
Photo #1 - ignore that... my wife snapped the picture while I was talking. :cool:
Photo #2 - this is everything inside the box
Photo #3 - this is everything all inclusive
Photo #4 - this is everything inside the box - close up
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If someone can tell me the correct terminology for picture #3 - it would be very helpful - generic terms. On the left is the meter. The power from the pole begins at this location. What is the correct term for the item in the middle. What is the correct term for the item on the right; fuse box or electrical panel? Don't laugh... well laugh a little... it's all good. :)
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Regarding the circuit breakers:
1.) The top left circuit is an unknown. It says 20 - we do not know what it runs. Probably the flourescent light inside the old barn.
2.) The bottom left circuit says 20 (but for some reason it is bigger than the other two 20's). The wire connected that circuit runs above ground to our water well. Short term this is fine with us.
3.) The bottom right circuit says 50. The two wires run inside that conduit under ground. They go to an outlet inside an old barn. The outlet has openings for three prongs - two big ones next to each other running parrallel. It is slightly different than the three prong for our trailer... for our trailer the two slit shaped openings are not parrallel. I'm guessing they plugged in a welder or something similar.
4.) The top right circuit says 20. That wire runs to that outlet in the pic. Here is what we need IF POSSIBLE - and remember this is just a short term fix - we need that outlet below the box/panel to allow us to plug in our trailer. I tried using it but the circuit kept tripping. The circuit is a 20; I believe we need a 30?; I'm guessing we'll need new wire and a new outlet too? We don't mind replacing the circuit, the wire or the outlet - but we need to know all the correct names and numbers... is this a DIY or more of a hire a pro situation? On Wednesday 6/1/11 my employer decided to layoff several people - I was one of them :ashamed: / :mad:... so if possible to DIY - we'd prefer to give it a try. :thumbsup:
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Later this year or sometime early next year we'll need to bring all of the power to our new metal building - right now we just want some a/c so we can hang out at the ranch, do some work and not melt - it is HOT in Houston.

Thanx!!!
 

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   / Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ? #2  
Ok first of all you need to find out how many amps your trailers is first then go to lowes and get that size breaker you want to run 10awg wire then get the same plug that goes to your trailer and your all set. I am glad to help
 
   / Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ? #3  
Plugs are configured based on the voltage and amperage rating of the circuit. You shouldn't have any trouble wiring up a simple circuit to provide your service, but you do need to understand what your requirements are to get wiring and breakers to match so it's safe. I bet you have a friend somewhere who knows something about it.

Start with this page to determine exactly what plug and service you are dealing with on the trailer:

NEMA Configurations
 
   / Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ? #4  
I'm going to suggest that you get a pro to look at this. I see serious issues with corrosion and the outlet is not GFI protected. Electrical Safety is important in my books and it doesn't take much to make you dead!

Sorry if I seem short but life is
 
   / Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ? #5  
We don't mind replacing the circuit, the wire or the outlet - but we need to know all the correct names and numbers... is this a DIY or more of a hire a pro situation?
It can be a DIY situation - provided you educate yourself properly, and fully understand the potential hazard, and then use proper care - messing around side that box could get you dead, if you don't know what you are doing.

Having said that, I'm no electrician ...... but I was inside the 200A panel for our house yesterday, installing a new 50A breaker ..... ahhh .... without the power cut :confused2:

If someone can tell me the correct terminology for picture #3 - it would be very helpful - generic terms. On the left is the meter. The power from the pole begins at this location. What is the correct term for the item in the middle.
Like I said: I'm no electrician, but I'll take a stab: the item in the middle appears to be main disconnect switch for the item on the right. It (the item in the middle) may well be fused inside the box. I have a similar one (rated at 200A) that is fused, that I need to install to feed the electrical service in our polebarn.

The main disconnect switch would be necessary, from a safety standpoint, since the item on the right does not have it's own main disconnect switch to kill power to itself - a particularly important and useful feature, if one plans on being inside the item on the right, working on it :D

What is the correct term for the item on the right; fuse box or electrical panel? Don't laugh... well laugh a little... it's all good.
Either could be applicable I suppose, from a generic/slang perspective.

To be accurate and descriptive, I'd call it a circuit breaker panel :D

It may technically be a sub-panel ... dunno ....

Regarding the circuit breakers:
1.) The top left circuit is an unknown. It says 20 - we do not know what it runs. Probably the flourescent light inside the old barn.
You should make the effort to find out what it feeds - and then at least label it. This is for safety reasons - maybe not your safety, but perhaps someone elses .....

2.) The bottom left circuit says 20 (but for some reason it is bigger than the other two 20's)
Thin breaker versus a wide one .... I'm not really sure the reason for the difference (other than saving space and allowing more circuits in a panel ?) .... I believe that the larger one's have higher rating in some respects than the thinner ones, although I may be mistaken.

The wire connected to that circuit runs above ground to our water well. Short term this is fine with us.
As long as you understand the particular hazard it poses .....

3.) The bottom right circuit says 50. The two wires run inside that conduit under ground. They go to an outlet inside an old barn. The outlet has openings for three prongs - two big ones next to each other running parrallel. It is slightly different than the three prong for our trailer... for our trailer the two slit shaped openings are not parrallel. I'm guessing they plugged in a welder or something similar.
Seems reasonable ...

4.) The top right circuit says 20. That wire runs to that outlet in the pic.
Right.

While you are about all of this, here's a couple more fairly simple things you ought to do asap (IMHO):

1. Spend a couple of bucks and at least get a proper weather-proof cover (one that isn't broken) for that 120v outlet on the bottom of the box. Coupla bucks.

As mentioned, ideally, you should throw a GFCI outlet and cover on it .... in an actual weatherproof box .... (I assume that it does rain down there :D)

2. Your power feed cable to your well appears to be run thru a set-screw connector for metal conduit. This is not correct - there is no way to secure the cable and provide strain-relief with the connector being used, and as a result, the cable has actually fallen down out of the box to the point where the outer insulation jacket is below the set-screw connector, allowing the inside wires to rub against the (metal) connector, as well as placing a strain on the wires at the point where they connect to the circuit breaker..

At a minimum replace the set-screw connector with one of these (less than a $1), sliding the cable up into the circuit breaker panel so that the clamp grips the outer insulation jacket, and there is no strain on the wires at the breaker:

Twin Screw Clamp Connector

Here is what we need IF POSSIBLE - and remember this is just a short term fix - we need that outlet below the box/panel to allow us to plug in our trailer.
Easy enough to do ... remove the unused set-screw conduit connector and use the hole to wire in another box and outlet.

Obviously any time you are working inside that circuit breaker panel, you should have the power to it shut off via the main disconnect switch. (Do as I say, not as I do :p)

I tried using it but the circuit kept tripping. The circuit is a 20; I believe we need a 30?;
Dunno - you tell me - what kind of plug/receptacle is on your travel trailer ?

It could be you have a 30A shore power receptacle on the trailer, and then a proper 30A rated cable, and perhaps an adapter to convert it to either a standard 15A (or 20A) household plug ?

Or you could have a cobbled together cable with a 30A plug on one end (at the trailer) and standard 15A (or 20A) household plug on the other end .....

As KennyG suggests, take a look at the NEMA plug-receptacle configurations he linked and then let us know exactly what you have (pics would be good) on the trailer ..... and on both ends of the cable. And let us know exactly what gauge wire is in the cable.

I'm guessing we'll need new wire and a new outlet too?
Correct - as well as a new circuit breaker.

You will need to size the wire for the load - then you need to size the breaker for the wire. The purpose of the breaker is to protect the wire.

On Wednesday 6/1/11 my employer decided to layoff several people - I was one of them ...
Sorry to hear it :(

so if possible to DIY - we'd prefer to give it a try.
You can do it - assuming you are a person of reasonable intelligence and willing to exercise proper care.

Later this year or sometime early next year we'll need to bring all of the power to our new metal building - right now we just want some a/c so we can hang out at the ranch, do some work and not melt - it is HOT in Houston.

Thanx!!!
Glad to be of service :thumbsup:
 
   / Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ? #6  
The wood screw laying on the left hand feed terminal has the potential for severe arcing!:eek:
 
   / Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ? #7  
To add to the other couple of items that aren't kosher, it looks like the ground for the well service has been cut off and left sticking up in the air...not good. Without that ground hooked up as it is supposed to be, any/all metal cases of any electric equipment or anything connected to them metallically could have a high voltage potential to earth at the well site and yet everything could operate ok. Also, the 50 A breaker seems to have two services ran to it...that's not good either. An overload on one of those circuits could be low enough amperage that the breaker sees it as a load and doesn't trip but at the same time the conductor could be overloaded to the point that it could start a fire.

To tell the truth, even though this could easily be a DIY project, I think you should get a qualified electrician to come have a look-see and bring it all up to code for safety reasons alone.
 
   / Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ? #8  
Thin breaker versus a wide one .... I'm not really sure the reason for the difference (other than saving space and allowing more circuits in a panel ?) .... I believe that the larger one's have higher rating in some respects than the thinner ones, although I may be mistaken.

The "thin" breakers (breakers 1 and 2 in the picture below) are single pole (120v) breakers (one "hot" wire) and the "thick" breakers (breakers 9/11 ad 10/12 in the picture below) are double pole (220v) breakers (2 "hot" wires)

The wire labeled "wire 1" in the picture below needs three things:
1. Disconnect it and clean up the ends (I would cut off 1/2" from the wire and restrip the ends)
2. Reconnect the green (ground) wire to the same bar as the others
3. Replace the connector where it goes through the side of the box with one like: Shop Gampak 1/2" BX - MC - Flex Connector at Lowes.com as the current connector is intended for solid conduit, not a flexible wire

I would replace the entire outlet/box for Outlet1 with this kit: Lowes.com Error 500 - We are having a problem with our server.

To add a plug for your rv you will need the following:
1. A matching plug to the one you have on the RV cord
2. A short (2'?) piece of 10 gauge 2 conductor wire
3. A 30 amp single pole (110v) breaker (looks like a Square D QO to me) like: Shop Square D QO 30-Amp Single Pole Circuit Breaker at Lowes.com
4. A electrical box like: Lowes.com Error 500 - We are having a problem with our server.
5. A in use cover like: Lowes.com Error 500 - We are having a problem with our server.
It would be wired just like your current outlet is wired, but with heavier wire and a cover over it

View attachment 216534


Aaron Z
 

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   / Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ? #9  
I'm gonna take a stab too..
first, I see your subpanel has alot of rust, good way for problems to happen soon. here in northeast, that rust will cause flickering of power. I am going to take a haphazard guess that houston is drier therefore it won't happen soon.

aczlan has outlined a general idea what you need.

Right now, I understand about your job layoff, but since your cutoff switch is in middle, it makes it easy to replace your whole subpanel.

I'd get a replacement subpanel, get a covered outlet, gfci plug for it. The 220 wire on left has chafing on the white wire and sheathing is too short. should be thru the clamp. Your red wire is sitting there ready for shocking on left. put a cap on it. Put a slanted board across the whole top to keep rain away from th whole panel. When you go to hardware store, get an 30 amp single pole breaker to install the panel for the camper. Use a GFCI protected plug for camper since its a outdoor use.

Your plug under subpanel is probably tripping due to corrosion. Like I said before replace that box with a better outdoor box and gfci protected plug.


I see a few more issues , but I see its been there for who knows how long. I am willing to bet that if a certified electrician was there, he would say there are a number of things to replace, just for longitivity and safety within todays standards.
 
   / Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ? #10  
Not an electrician and you have gotten lots of advice.

My question is; do you own a meter and can you use it properly:)?
 
 
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