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  1. #21
    Silver Member frischtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    139
    Location
    Harford County, MD
    Tractor
    PT-425

    Default Re: Electrical code & "Grandfather clause"

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedogone View Post
    I've got a whole lot more to worry about than trying to pick the pepper out of the flyshit by trying to enforce 110.12
    I hear that...
    2010 PT-425 - 60" finish mower, 60" blade, 45" grapple bucket, 10cu' lmb
    2004 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT 4x4 5.9L Cummins HPCR Turbo Diesel QCLB NV5600 6-speed manual 4.10s
    IBEW Local #24

  2. #22
    Super Member grsthegreat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    6,697
    Location
    north idaho
    Tractor
    Kioti DK45SE hst cab

    Default Re: Electrical code & "Grandfather clause"

    I dont know how it works in PA, but here in the Pacific Northwest the inspectors will NOT require an existing panel to be repaired or upgraded when work is added to it AS LONG AS THERE ISNT A LIFE SAFETY ISSUE.

    For example if he finds lose wires, improper grounding, etc he can call you on it. He cannot make you replace your service unless you have overloaded the system. A load calc can be done, but they are fairly complicated to do. If the house has electric heat you can easily reach the 200 amp threshold.

    Generally i never run into issues with overloading a 200 amp service in a house that has gas utilities.

    There is NO code that states a panel has to look good.... HOWEVER there is a code that states all work MUST be completed in a workman like manner. tricky at times. Generally is i am called to work on an existing panel, ill generally rework the guts of the panel to make it look cleaner. I dont like my inspectors to think im a sloppy electrician.

    The rule of thumb in Idaho and Wash state, if the work exceeds 10% of the value of the structure, then the panel would have to be brought up to code.
    currently own
    2011 Kioti DK45SE HST CAB tractor/loader, Jimna 6" - 3 point wood chipper, 60" JD Brush Hog, JD 60" Rototiller, 3 point post hole digger with hydraulic assist, 3 point spring tooth rake, Fimco 55 gallon weed sprayer with 12 foot boom, 3 point hydraulic wood splitter (home built)
    Quick Attach 79" loader mount snowblower & rear powerpack
    Quick Attach 84" Snow Blade
    Quick Attach 42" pallet forks

  3. #23
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    433
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Tractor
    JD 4120

    Default Re: Electrical code & "Grandfather clause"

    Quote Originally Posted by grsthegreat View Post
    I dont know how it works in PA, but here in the Pacific Northwest the inspectors will NOT require an existing panel to be repaired or upgraded when work is added to it AS LONG AS THERE ISNT A LIFE SAFETY ISSUE.

    For example if he finds lose wires, improper grounding, etc he can call you on it. He cannot make you replace your service unless you have overloaded the system. A load calc can be done, but they are fairly complicated to do. If the house has electric heat you can easily reach the 200 amp threshold.

    Generally i never run into issues with overloading a 200 amp service in a house that has gas utilities.

    There is NO code that states a panel has to look good.... HOWEVER there is a code that states all work MUST be completed in a workman like manner. tricky at times. Generally is i am called to work on an existing panel, ill generally rework the guts of the panel to make it look cleaner. I dont like my inspectors to think im a sloppy electrician.

    The rule of thumb in Idaho and Wash state, if the work exceeds 10% of the value of the structure, then the panel would have to be brought up to code.
    All good points. I've never heard of the 10% "rule of thumb"

  4. #24
    Super Member grsthegreat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    6,697
    Location
    north idaho
    Tractor
    Kioti DK45SE hst cab

    Default Re: Electrical code & "Grandfather clause"

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedogone View Post
    All good points. I've never heard of the 10% "rule of thumb"
    thats just what they use up here. after the so called 10% they can insist on upgrades, smoke detectors, gfci's etc.
    currently own
    2011 Kioti DK45SE HST CAB tractor/loader, Jimna 6" - 3 point wood chipper, 60" JD Brush Hog, JD 60" Rototiller, 3 point post hole digger with hydraulic assist, 3 point spring tooth rake, Fimco 55 gallon weed sprayer with 12 foot boom, 3 point hydraulic wood splitter (home built)
    Quick Attach 79" loader mount snowblower & rear powerpack
    Quick Attach 84" Snow Blade
    Quick Attach 42" pallet forks

  5. #25
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    845
    Location
    Coastal Rhode Island
    Tractor
    Jinma 354, purchased 2007

    Default Re: Electrical code & "Grandfather clause"

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedogone View Post
    All good points. I've never heard of the 10% "rule of thumb"
    I heard a similar thing from an inspector in Rhode Island, except it was if work exceeds 1/3 of the value of the house the septic has to be brought up to code. I don't know if he was just making it up or if it's really in the code somewhere.

    The thing to remember is that codes are highly local. There may be a National Electrical Code but there really aren't national standards. My town of 1500 people has an inspector who works for the town, things are different here than in the next town over.

  6. #26
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    7,873
    Location
    SF Bay Area-Ca Olympia WA Salzburg Austria
    Tractor
    Cat D3, Deere 110 TLB, Kubota BX23 and L3800 Craftsman Mower, Deere 350C Dozer

    Default Re: Electrical code & "Grandfather clause"

    Quote Originally Posted by Artisan View Post

    PS, Codes change as well. Cloth covered wires exposed and run with
    porcelin insulators passed inspection 50+ years ago, not now.
    They still do and just about every home I have lived in has Knob and Tube wiring.

    The key is that it must be in good condition and not altered.

    Now, if you would have said aluminum for 15 and 20 amp circuits... some insurance companies will not write a policy just as some here will require circuit breakers... not a code issues... just a reality.

    Knob and Tube isn't all bad... just look at most utility poles...
    Last edited by ultrarunner; 04-24-2012 at 11:06 PM.

  7. #27
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    131
    Location
    Central Pa.
    Tractor
    JD2305

    Default Re: Electrical code & "Grandfather clause"

    Thank you all for responding, appreciate it.

  8. #28
    Super Member grsthegreat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    6,697
    Location
    north idaho
    Tractor
    Kioti DK45SE hst cab

    Default Re: Electrical code & "Grandfather clause"

    Knob and tube had no issues...until houses were insulated.

    Think about bare wires covered in insulation.....unseen

    As a liability issue i will NOT work on a knob^tube wired house except to totally rewire it.
    currently own
    2011 Kioti DK45SE HST CAB tractor/loader, Jimna 6" - 3 point wood chipper, 60" JD Brush Hog, JD 60" Rototiller, 3 point post hole digger with hydraulic assist, 3 point spring tooth rake, Fimco 55 gallon weed sprayer with 12 foot boom, 3 point hydraulic wood splitter (home built)
    Quick Attach 79" loader mount snowblower & rear powerpack
    Quick Attach 84" Snow Blade
    Quick Attach 42" pallet forks

  9. #29
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    466

    Default Re: Electrical code & "Grandfather clause"

    I don't understand the hate for DIY electricians here. I am a self taught DIY electrician, mainly because I had to become one. Many of the licensed jokers don't give a crap about the junk they leave behind as long as the check clears. I have to live in the house with those I love!

    My parents' house was built new in 79. I am still finding bad connections from time to time when a light quits working. I am also not a fan of how the 200 amp service consists or a pair of 100 amp panels. The first house I purchased was built in the 50's the "professionally rewired" much later. Needless to say the re-wiring consisted of only a new breaker box and what was easy to see. Look inside the walls and you'd see all sorts of crumbling ungrounded wires. Some circuits would supply to parts of 4 or more rooms, the hallway light was off the GFCI in the bathroom, and the kitchen was just a plain mess. My current house is an absolute nightmare. I've redone about half of it so far, and the rest needs to be redone too. I am also going to run sub-panels to 2 outbuildings before too long, maybe I'll get one done this summer.

    ps. The Knob and Tube stuff in my current house is the best stuff in it apart from what I've redone.

  10. #30
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    7,873
    Location
    SF Bay Area-Ca Olympia WA Salzburg Austria
    Tractor
    Cat D3, Deere 110 TLB, Kubota BX23 and L3800 Craftsman Mower, Deere 350C Dozer

    Default Re: Electrical code & "Grandfather clause"

    My first home was built in 1922 and I bought it from the original owner... they bought it new when they married and never had any children.

    It still had the 1922 bath with Standard Fixtures, the High Leg Occidental Stove and unpainted tracks in the double hung windows... I bet the paint inside the closets dated from 1922 too.

    Aside from getting used to only two outlets in each room... I didn't have a single electrical issue and the knob and tube has served well... a 30 amp main with a light and plug circuits.

    It's kind of ironic because my home was one of about 80 built in the sub-division and many have suffered through horrible remodels and alterations... the man next door is on his third service... it was upgraded to 60 amp and now has 125 amp and he has had lots of electrical issues...

    My identical little home has had none... gravity gas central heat, gas cooking, gas water heater and a gas dryer...

    Sometimes... more is just more and not necessarily better.... at least this is my opinion from some of the horrible remodels I have seen...

    Funny thing is my original home is worth the same or more then the ones that have been serial remodeled...

    Folks added press and stick floor tiles, popcorn ceilings, particle board vanities, cheap aluminum windows... removed all the period wood trim, painted the beautiful crafted fireplaces... etc.

    A friend bought a home even older from the original family... it is located at Adam's point near Lake Merrit... each room still had the gas light fixtures... although the gas line in the basement had been capped.

    He paid a lot of money to an electrician to rewire the entire home... they totally butchered the house... 3 and 4 inch holes drilled everywhere... even in solid 1 x 14 heart redwood baseboards... I had never seen anything like it... the estimate to repair the electrician damaged walls and mouldings is more then the $9,000 plus paid to the electrician... and it all started because the wife wanted an electric self-cleaning oven....

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