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  1. #61
    Gold Member Ranger Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    301
    Location
    Louisa, VA East of Charlottesville
    Tractor
    Kubota L3940

    Default Re: New Home Heating Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Dave View Post
    I got quotes from $1.25to $1.50 per sq/ft per inch for spray foam

    Dave
    I recently got a quote for $1.50 for 3 1/2" per sq ft in the wall and $2 per sq ft for 5 1/2" in the ceiling. Rick

  2. #62
    Veteran Member Carl_NH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    1,943
    Location
    Coastal NH
    Tractor
    01 Kubota B21TLB, 2010 Ferris 52" ZTR, Cub Cadet 1811, Gravely Super8

    Default Re: New Home Heating Ideas

    Rick,

    That seems to be a good price - with say 3000SF roof area $6K (30 square of shingles) and 4000 SF of wall area $6K that's better than many I have heard. I think traditional glas R38 roof is around a $1.50 installed and $.80 for R19 in the walls so not quite double the cost.
    Kubota B21TLB, Ferris IS2000, Cub Cadet 1811

  3. #63
    Member pak7819's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    32
    Location
    SE Wisconsin
    Tractor
    2006 NH TC40DA

    Default Re: New Home Heating Ideas

    Don't forget the KISS method of keeping it simple if you haven't pulled the trigger on a new wiz bang heating system yet. I couldn't be happier choosing a simple free standing wood stove in our similar sized new construction home. I picked a Pacifica, the Summit model,...no fans, no blowers, no boiler, no nothing,....just radiant heat rising from the basement to keep the floor cozy warm in both the basement and the main living level upstairs.

    Have a similar sized new home built 3 years ago in central east WI, about 2,500 ft2 (without basement), exposed basement and SW facing window wall for winter sun. 2x6 stud walls with dry blown insulation and about R50-60 in the ceilings. Use forced LP as backup (integrated with AC of course for summer) that costs about $200/year in LP including on-demand water heater,.....cheap!

    Burn about 4 cord per year, and use double doors in basement to load carts full of wood into basement. Really nice set up, found about 20 steel frame carts with cast iron swivel casters,...they work great. I have enough wood on my property to last my lifetime, so this made good sense for us. I wasn't convinced by the high start up of geo thermal or solar with the resources right at my fingertips.

    Good luck!

  4. #64
    Member pak7819's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    32
    Location
    SE Wisconsin
    Tractor
    2006 NH TC40DA

    Default Re: New Home Heating Ideas

    Don't forget the KISS method of keeping it simple if you haven't pulled the trigger on a new wiz bang heating system yet. I couldn't be happier choosing a simple free standing wood stove in our similar sized new construction home. I picked a Pacifica, the Summit model,...no fans, no blowers, no boiler, no nothing,....just radiant heat rising from the basement to keep the floor cozy warm in both the basement and the main living level upstairs.

    Have a similar sized new home built 3 years ago in central east WI, about 2,500 ft2 (without basement), exposed basement and SW facing window wall for winter sun. 2x6 stud walls with dry blown insulation and about R50-60 in the ceilings. Use forced LP as backup (integrated with AC of course for summer) that costs about $200/year in LP including on-demand water heater,.....cheap!

    Burn about 4 cord per year, and use double doors in basement to load carts full of wood into basement. Really nice set up, found about 20 steel frame carts with cast iron swivel casters,...they work great. I have enough wood on my property to last my lifetime, so this made good sense for us. I wasn't convinced by the high start up of geo thermal or solar with the resources right at my fingertips.

    Good luck!

  5. #65
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,621
    Location
    Bancroft, Ontario
    Tractor
    JD4300

    Default Re: New Home Heating Ideas

    We went the geo with lake loop route about five years ago. Also added a lot of insulation from basement to attic, plus an airtight fireplace insert. Even when we are heating with wood, the geo filters and circulates the warm air, not to mention summer a/c..Went from 120/140 gallons of oil/month to a house that can be heated by 3/4 bush cords/ winter. Or we can set the geo thermal to fire up about 6am and stay in bed till 8am if we choose....
    Geo systems are great BUT they are a lot better if the installer takes NO shortcuts. He cannot save enough to make up for the agony of a poor install. If you have your own hoe you can do your own trenching and cut the price down but make sure you install a long enough loop, no "slinkys" and separate feed and return loop trenches....
    If wood is cheap and/or easy to obtain, then by all means use it either in a stove or boiler system, but build as if the geo is your main heat source. When you go to sell, (or break a leg, go away for a few days, etc) you will be glad you installed the geo.....

  6. #66
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    281
    Location
    Nevada City CA
    Tractor
    Kubota BX 2660 & BX-23

    Default Re: New Home Heating Ideas

    I just can't go Geo anymore. I installed them back in the 70's and early 80's. We used to put a glazed solar system on a pool and then use the pool water to drive the hp. The front end cost is just to great given the options that are available today. As well, you end up with a ducted system. On a new install, you can and really, you should have a third party do a pressure test on your duct system if you go that way. We have that now in CA. Third part testing is necessary on every furnace or heat pump to ensure what you pay for gets to where it is supposed to go. I have a DOE publication that say you can loose between 18 and 42% of your energy in the duct system. Almost all existing ductwork leaks like a sieve. Much new untested ductwork is the same. IMHO, the unitary guys, Trane, Carrier, York, Lennox, etc can put all the technology they want into the box. They just cannot deliver it. They are strapped over poor distribution systems.

    I moved into my home last year. It is an old home but had a 5yr old LP furnace/ac system. Ductwork was so poor I pulled the whole thing and went with a Fujitsu mini-split heat pump and two Rinnai Energysavers. All of this equipment is "net to the space", meaning no ductwork. In your home, I'd follow the insulation guidelines. Put the first $ into the envelop to reduce your demand. Mitsubishi and Fujitsu (my favorite) both make mshp's that will heat down to -15*. I spoke with a contractor up in the Susanville, CA area last year who did two almost identical homes. One was conventional ducted gas and the other the Fujitsu system with one condensing unit and 8 interior evaporators. The duct sytem met the max 6% leakage test. He said installed cost for the two were very close but the Fujitsu system costs less than 50% of the gas unit to operate. Dehu and cooling performance of the mshp's is superior.

    Based upon the way my place is laid out, the Rinnai's are actually doing the majority of my heat. However, I don't run the whole house at 70. I heat the areas I live in and really have a very well zoned system. This too represents significant savings. "Red-neck in Training" spoke of the efficiency of his Halcyon (Fujitsu) system. I'd use a Rinnai tankless water heater for hot water

    Now, in fairness, I have to acknowledge my bias. I represented Rinnai for 22 years and am still consulting with them. As well, I represented Fujitsu for 12 years. I'm a fan and a biased fan, but the equipment earned it. Good luck on your new home! Keep us posted on your choices.

  7. #67
    Elite Member Redneck in training's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    2,641
    Location
    South Central Iowa
    Tractor
    TYM 330 HST with FEL

    Default Re: New Home Heating Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by AHNC View Post
    I just can't go Geo anymore. I installed them back in the 70's and early 80's. We used to put a glazed solar system on a pool and then use the pool water to drive the hp. The front end cost is just to great given the options that are available today. As well, you end up with a ducted system. On a new install, you can and really, you should have a third party do a pressure test on your duct system if you go that way. We have that now in CA. Third part testing is necessary on every furnace or heat pump to ensure what you pay for gets to where it is supposed to go. I have a DOE publication that say you can loose between 18 and 42% of your energy in the duct system. Almost all existing ductwork leaks like a sieve. Much new untested ductwork is the same. IMHO, the unitary guys, Trane, Carrier, York, Lennox, etc can put all the technology they want into the box. They just cannot deliver it. They are strapped over poor distribution systems.

    I moved into my home last year. It is an old home but had a 5yr old LP furnace/ac system. Ductwork was so poor I pulled the whole thing and went with a Fujitsu mini-split heat pump and two Rinnai Energysavers. All of this equipment is "net to the space", meaning no ductwork. In your home, I'd follow the insulation guidelines. Put the first $ into the envelop to reduce your demand. Mitsubishi and Fujitsu (my favorite) both make mshp's that will heat down to -15*. I spoke with a contractor up in the Susanville, CA area last year who did two almost identical homes. One was conventional ducted gas and the other the Fujitsu system with one condensing unit and 8 interior evaporators. The duct sytem met the max 6% leakage test. He said installed cost for the two were very close but the Fujitsu system costs less than 50% of the gas unit to operate. Dehu and cooling performance of the mshp's is superior.

    Based upon the way my place is laid out, the Rinnai's are actually doing the majority of my heat. However, I don't run the whole house at 70. I heat the areas I live in and really have a very well zoned system. This too represents significant savings. "Red-neck in Training" spoke of the efficiency of his Halcyon (Fujitsu) system. I'd use a Rinnai tankless water heater for hot water

    Now, in fairness, I have to acknowledge my bias. I represented Rinnai for 22 years and am still consulting with them. As well, I represented Fujitsu for 12 years. I'm a fan and a biased fan, but the equipment earned it. Good luck on your new home! Keep us posted on your choices.
    Then take the saving and invest it in solar panels to power it all up.
    Ladia

  8. #68
    Elite Member woodlandfarms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,908
    Location
    Los Angeles / SW Washington
    Tractor
    PowerTrac 1850

    Default Re: New Home Heating Ideas

    Popular Mechanics does some interesting research. There is an article from earlier this year and one from last year. Wood is the cheapest, but you need the properly designed fireplace / boiler to make it work...

    You can use multiple systems to get good results, insulation is the key to all of it. Passive solar air heating, wood burning, maybe heat pump, maybe geo thermal.

    Wood Pellets Stoves - Wood Heating - Popular Mechanics

    https://www.google.com/search?q=popu...hrome&ie=UTF-8
    Power-Trac 1850, grapple, hoe, 90" mower, 72" box blade

  9. #69
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    281
    Location
    Nevada City CA
    Tractor
    Kubota BX 2660 & BX-23

    Default Re: New Home Heating Ideas

    Absolutely! Solar thermal is becoming prohibitively expensive and from where I sit the numbers are no longer there. With my tankless water heater I was burning 10-13 therms/mo. For a $10k hot water heating system it would never pay off. I wish it was otherwise, as I installed hundreds of DHW systems back in the 70's and early 80's. Low temp space heating (radiant/snow melt) makes a bit more sense.

    SOLAR ELECTRIC is an entirely different kettle of fish however. The numbers for that become more and more compelling. I'm planning my garage build for next spring and I'm thinking a Salt-box type roof to maximize the southern exposure to fill it with PV's. Time and $ will tell

  10. #70
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    13
    Location
    Lakelands, Nova Scotia
    Tractor
    BX25

    Default Re: New Home Heating Ideas

    1 year ago we built a new house with 5500 sq ft of heated space over two floors in Nova Scotia, Canada. Heating season is from Oct till June. AC usually July and August. We decided to build a house that was as efficient as possible without compromising style and our particular wants and needs.
    We spent the extra bucks and built with ICF from footing to roof, R70 in roof, large South facing energy efficient windows, very airtight with heat recovery air exchange system, and geothermal heat and AC. 2" rigid insulation under concrete floor. Geothermal uses water from 600' well, not enough soil to bury horizontal system effectively.

    Heating and cooling costs less than $100/month. My previous 3500 sq ft house cost over $350 a month to heat, no AC. Geothermal will pay for itself in about 7-8 years with the added bonus of AC when needed. I haven't accounted for the cost of ICF, which would most likely take the payback closer to 15 years. ICF has many benefits beyond energy efficiency. The house is almost sounproof. No road noise. Very quiet in major storms. Boats on the lake are barely noticed.

    After living in the house for a full year I would recommend both ICF and geothermal.

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