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  1. #81
    Gold Member wyeguy's Avatar
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    Nice to leave the linemen hanging with the added risk of some idiot who is counting on them to "follow the rules". I worked with a crew in a storm job (Omaha 1998) who became trapped in a back yard by a metal fence that became energized. Must not have been on metal posts or a very poor ground connection. I've seen house siding become energized, too. Electricity don't follow no rules or codes, fellas. So be sure and push it, cuz you know so much. Even if the line crews are working properly with grounds and rubber goods, what about your neighbor's kid down the road out in the yard who touches a wire energized by your generator through your transformer? Forget about liability and insurance. Live with that.

  2. #82
    Elite Member Ken45101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Generator and electricity flow

    Quote Originally Posted by wyeguy View Post
    Even if the line crews are working properly with grounds and rubber goods, what about your neighbor's kid down the road out in the yard who touches a wire energized by your generator through your transformer? Forget about liability and insurance. Live with that.
    Or the firefighter or first responder....

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Generator and electricity flow

    Quote Originally Posted by wyeguy View Post
    Nice to leave the linemen hanging with the added risk of some idiot who is counting on them to "follow the rules". I worked with a crew in a storm job (Omaha 1998) who became trapped in a back yard by a metal fence that became energized. Must not have been on metal posts or a very poor ground connection. I've seen house siding become energized, too. Electricity don't follow no rules or codes, fellas. So be sure and push it, cuz you know so much. Even if the line crews are working properly with grounds and rubber goods, what about your neighbor's kid down the road out in the yard who touches a wire energized by your generator through your transformer? Forget about liability and insurance. Live with that.
    Back on post #23 I mentioned No matter how it is explained. there is some who just know better on how it is to be done.
    It is the I want what I want and no one is going to tell them different .
    Same as some educated past there ability to understand. The Electrical code when states SHALL NOT means figure out another way to do it.
    Using a s/bGen. with no knowledge of elec. Shucks anyone can tie 2 wires together. What is wrong in doing it proper enjoy the safety of power and not having to explain why some one was killed.
    ken

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Generator and electricity flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Lineman North Florida View Post
    Are you a lineman? just wondering what your credentials are or level of expertise about what electrical lineman do or do not do.
    Nope but two of my neighbors are and I have talked to them about this at length. My wife's grandfather was also a lineman but has passed away. He broke his back while working due to a faulty bucket truck.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyeguy View Post
    Nice to leave the linemen hanging with the added risk of some idiot who is counting on them to "follow the rules". I worked with a crew in a storm job (Omaha 1998) who became trapped in a back yard by a metal fence that became energized. Must not have been on metal posts or a very poor ground connection. I've seen house siding become energized, too. Electricity don't follow no rules or codes, fellas. So be sure and push it, cuz you know so much. Even if the line crews are working properly with grounds and rubber goods, what about your neighbor's kid down the road out in the yard who touches a wire energized by your generator through your transformer? Forget about liability and insurance. Live with that.
    Exactly! Why are people even discussing this? I work for an electric utility and have been out on storm damage patrols and have seen wires laying and hanging everywhere. Utility protective schemes cannot protect every situation especially those introduced from the customer side.

    Safety talk aside, no one has even mentioned having their generator attached to the grid when the utility energizes the line feeding the house. I will guarantee the utility's phase angle will win the syncing battle.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Generator and electricity flow

    Quote Originally Posted by jejeosborne View Post

    Safety talk aside, no one has even mentioned having their generator attached to the grid when the utility energizes the line feeding the house. I will guarantee the utility's phase angle will win the syncing battle.
    This a good reminder that was mentioned back a few pages. The grid power will SMOKE every home generator connected to it just like it was a squirrel.

    The Navy knows the cost of doing a live cut from ship to shore or in the other direction wrong. Dams can come apart when dynamos are not brought online correctly.

    If one does not care about lives then focus on caring about your home generator so lives are not put at risk.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gale Hawkins View Post

    This a good reminder that was mentioned back a few pages. The grid power will SMOKE every home generator connected to it just like it was a squirrel.

    The Navy knows the cost of doing a live cut from ship to shore or in the other direction wrong. Dams can come apart when dynamos are not brought online correctly.

    If one does not care about lives then focus on caring about your home generator so lives are not put at risk.
    I see now your post from earlier. Just to clarify, the generator would not be seen as a short on the system. It would be seen as out of phase. The small generator would quickly become in sync with the grid. Depending on how far they were out of sync at closing, would determine the damage to the small generator. Possibly no damage to possibly smoke and fire.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Generator and electricity flow

    Quote Originally Posted by jejeosborne View Post
    I see now your post from earlier. Just to clarify, the generator would not be seen as a short on the system. It would be seen as out of phase. The small generator would quickly become in sync with the grid. Depending on how far they were out of sync at closing, would determine the damage to the small generator. Possibly no damage to possibly smoke and fire.
    While in the army worked on Cat. 100 K.W. Generators and when one in the field quit would exchange with repaired unit.
    Sent to White beach Okinawa Hosp. military area there was 4 100 K.W tied in phase. one was turned off due to blowing oil.
    disconnected power cables and reconnected replacement unit Started the unit and waited to be in phase and closed the breaker. and with in maybe 1 cycle all 5 were stopped. Silence.
    Disconnected the replaced unit.
    Started one unit back in the pony motor days and as soon as unit was running up to speed connected to power. 2nd unit same method so through the 3rd. and 4 th unit the replacement unit in checking had a phase wire reversed.
    repaired and again phase checked and tripped breaker and it took the load. The largest unit in the power system is the control of freq. and when something goes wrong all goes wrong.
    See in the news of sub. Station breakers flashing and burning all the fusing and safety against the possible damage sometime is to late.

    Would never connect a s/b. Gen to any power in house except through the correct switching breakers.
    ken

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post

    While in the army worked on Cat. 100 K.W. Generators and when one in the field quit would exchange with repaired unit.
    Sent to White beach Okinawa Hosp. military area there was 4 100 K.W tied in phase. one was turned off due to blowing oil.
    disconnected power cables and reconnected replacement unit Started the unit and waited to be in phase and closed the breaker. and with in maybe 1 cycle all 5 were stopped. Silence.
    Disconnected the replaced unit.
    Started one unit back in the pony motor days and as soon as unit was running up to speed connected to power. 2nd unit same method so through the 3rd. and 4 th unit the replacement unit in checking had a phase wire reversed.
    repaired and again phase checked and tripped breaker and it took the load. The largest unit in the power system is the control of freq. and when something goes wrong all goes wrong.
    See in the news of sub. Station breakers flashing and burning all the fusing and safety against the possible damage sometime is to late.

    Would never connect a s/b. Gen to any power in house except through the correct switching breakers.
    ken
    Actually it isn't the largest unit. All connected generators and connected rotating mass at the loads (pumps, fans, motors, etc) are all acting as one big animal. All this rotating mass connected together is against the next item to sync in. The electric grid of the united states is the largest machine in the world. The eastern interconnect of America (east coast to Rockies) is the largest grid on the same frequency. The rest of the country is tied to it via DC ties allowing a different frequency.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Generator and electricity flow

    jejeosborne thanks for clearing up my misconception about power generation phase angles.

    A few years ago the scouts were touring Lake Barkley KY power control room. They brought online another dynamo. The guy synced it up with a dial I think but there was still a lot of shaking and another guy was ragging him about it.

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