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  1. #341
    Veteran Member pclausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

    Ok, ok! I had one of my spies take a picture. Not up to the normal standard I know, but hey, it was the best I could do on short notice!

    JD 5085M w/ H260 MSL Loader, Frontier AV20G Grapple, Frontier AP13G Pallet Forks, Woods BH1050 Backhoe, Woods SG100 Stump Grinder, Woods RM990 Finish Mower, Woods RB850 3 Way Hydraulic Blade, Woods LR108-2 Rake, Maschio H205 Tiller, Bush Hog 3209 Cutter, Vermeer 906 Chipper, Valby SGR76 3pt Grapple, Shaver 601H Post Digger, Tufline 8' Disc Harrow, Vicon Vari-Spreader MK-II 400, JD 45 16-3 Bottom Plow
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  2. #342
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    Cub Cadet 2135

    Default Re: Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

    Quote Originally Posted by pclausen View Post
    I too did wonder about the 7 concrete pads, complete with center holes. They were handy for lifting them into the basement area. They used the same hooks in the holes that all the walls have, so they *may* not have been specifically for metal poles, although that seems very logical.
    Ponderous. I have seen a lot of basements with both the metal supports and the yp 6x6's. The odd thing is that typically the wooden supports are actually recessed into the concrete (presumably on a footing) whereas I have never seen a metal [screw type] support actually recessed. Granted I am no expert, but don't those metal supports have bases where you can anchor them to the concrete with some approapriate bolts?

    -Stu

  3. #343
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    Default Re: Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

    Almost all new construction around here uses engineered floor trusses that are about 24 inches tall and made of 2x4's. I haven't seen posts in a basement unless the house was built in the 50's. My first house had 2x12 beams with a triple 2x12 down the middle supported with 4x4's! It was a pretty small house though.

    Do they not use these type of floor supports everywhere else? I have seen them span pretty long distances. If it gets too long, there is a load bearing wall in the basement that shortens this up. The advantage is the space for running wires and hvac.

  4. #344
    Veteran Member dstig1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

    My apologies. I was going from memory and thought you were the poster that said wood posts caused sagging problems. I looked back a page and saw it was someone else. I've been following from the start, just crossed-up posters.

    None the less, there are two independent points to make here to correct a couple things posted in the past few days:
    1. Wood framing is better than steel in a fire. Ask your insurance agent if you don't believe me
    2. Wood does not shrink along the grain to any truly measurable amount (so little it is very insignificant in construction).

    This is mostly the record and not for pcalusen's build as he is already pretty much committed on things like this. But if others see this, they should know the correct facts on these points.
    -Dave

    "Being a pessimist is great. You can't lose. Either you end up being right...or you are pleasantly surprised."

    L5240HST, QA, 824 Loader, 48" Forks, 48" Grapple, rear blade, box blade, landscape rake, Ancient Farmi Skidding winch
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  5. #345
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    Default Re: Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

    Quote Originally Posted by dstig1 View Post
    None the less, there are two independent points to make here to correct a couple things posted in the past few days:
    1. Wood framing is better than steel in a fire. Ask your insurance agent if you don't believe me
    2. Wood does not shrink along the grain to any truly measurable amount (so little it is very insignificant in construction).
    You make two very good points here and I will not argue with them as I totally agree. What is under discussion is the reason that Pete says that the support posts that run from vertically from the floor joists down to the concrete in the basement can/should be metal (screw type) or 6x6 Yellow Pine. We all can clearly see that nothing is going to actually penetrate the floor unless it is anchored in. Therefore I think metal posts can be anchored to both top (floor joists) and bottom (concrete) would not necessarily violate code.

  6. #346
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    Default Re: Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

    Quote Originally Posted by dstig1 View Post
    My apologies. I was going from memory and thought you were the poster that said wood posts caused sagging problems. I looked back a page and saw it was someone else. I've been following from the start, just crossed-up posters.

    None the less, there are two independent points to make here to correct a couple things posted in the past few days:
    1. Wood framing is better than steel in a fire. Ask your insurance agent if you don't believe me
    2. Wood does not shrink along the grain to any truly measurable amount (so little it is very insignificant in construction).

    This is mostly the record and not for pcalusen's build as he is already pretty much committed on things like this. But if others see this, they should know the correct facts on these points.
    Everyone might want to look at these NIST home fire studies in a house that was rigged with thermocouples a foot apart from floor to ceiling to record the temperatures in a furnished home. The fire was set using a gasoline/oil mix thrown into the room and electronically sparked.
    Building and Fire Publications

    http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire00/PDF/f00136.pdf

    Remember, steel lally columns are filled with concrete to give stability if their near surroundings ever had enough burning fuel to generate a sustained fire temperature of previously stated 1700 deg. F.
    Various other combustion temperatures: T.C. Forensic: Article 10 - PHYSICAL CONSTANTS FOR INVESTIGATORS

    The important point in all of this is to get out of the structure quick. The smoke will get you.

  7. #347
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    Default Re: Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

    Quote Originally Posted by pacerron View Post
    Remember, steel lally columns are filled with concrete to give stability if their near surroundings ever had enough burning fuel to generate a sustained fire temperature of previously stated 1700 deg. F.
    Never seen a steel column that was filled with concrete around here... They are generally adjustable steel columns that sit on the floor and push on the beam that you want to suppport

    Aaron Z
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  8. #348
    Super Member mjncad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

    I've never seen a steel screw-jack column filled with concrete either. I've seen steel columns anchor bolted to the concrete footings or piers as the case may be, and I've seen them with their bases embedded in concrete. The worst I saw was a neighbor's house where the idiot builder bolted the steel columns to the floating basement floor slab. How that passed inspection is beyond me; but you can guess the damage caused to this house when the slab started moving.
    Paraphrasing Douglas Adams - So long and thanks for all the bacon.

  9. #349
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    Default Re: Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

    Around here if the floor is stick built steel columns are typically used (not filled). The columns are set on footings prior to the basement floor being poured. Basement floors are often poured after the house is in the dry. Wood posts aren't used unless the basement will be finished and the posts are part of the framing. They are set on the finished basement floor with a footing underneath.

    I believe in pclausen's build that column footings poured separate from and underneath the basement floor could settle at a different rate since the whole house is on a floating gravel foundation. The likelihood of a strong bond between a footing poured and a basement floor poured later is questionable. As constructed, any settling of the foundation will allow the house to settle as a unit. Additionally the weight bearing area is greater than a 2'x2'x12" footing and the house is a relatively light house (no second floor etc). Finally, if the previous photos are reviewed, one will see that a footer was poured as a monolithic pour as part of the basement floor and that thicker area will be under the wood posts in the basement.

    It appears to be better than adequate construction to me.
    Last edited by Ted Summey; 03-02-2013 at 08:51 AM.

  10. #350
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    Default Re: Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

    Quote Originally Posted by aczlan View Post
    Never seen a steel column that was filled with concrete around here... They are generally adjustable steel columns that sit on the floor and push on the beam that you want to suppport

    Aaron Z
    Lally columns filled with concrete have been available since the 1800's.
    http://www.destefanoassociates.com/p...ly_columns.pdf

    What most of you are thinking about are the temporary round steel post screw jacks that are hollow, made in 2-3 sections so the column height has adjustments between holes and a threaded shaft on top for jacking up the beam for placement of the final support or shimming of an exisiting support to re-level a floor above.. Another reason for the sections is they can be assembled in shorter lengths to jack up decks and other structures that are less than 8' high. These are not meant to be permanent.
    Permanent posts with threaded adjustment are different. No holes in the tubing, end caps are welded on. They are designed to be installed with the the threaded part down at the basement floor level for a number of reasons. That does not mean that they were installed that way though nor does it mean that some homeowner didn't use a temporary adjustable floor jack as a permanent installation.

    I would not recommend that you saw into your house posts/jacks/lally columns to see if they are hollow
    You can easily see if it is a temporary type jack by looking at how it is made in sections.
    Enough on this subject.

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