Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

   / Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days
  • Thread Starter
#851  
No typo Eddie. I wish it was!

Its amazing what it all adds up to. I have an itemized breakdown showing the base cost, and then all the options.
 
   / Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days
  • Thread Starter
#852  
I suppose there is no harm in sharing the detailed cost breakdown.

The builder assures me that we will true-up before the final draft payment and make any adjustments for the changes done throughout construction. I too question some of the amounts in the list below, especially taken into considderation what should already be included in the base price. That said, the total is in-line with the high-end total I got from e-plans where I found the plans originally.

housecost2.JPG


If any of these numbers jump out as being excessive, by all means let me know so that I can use that as leverage during final settlement.

Another thing to mention is that the payment draft schedule is using different subtotals from what is shown in the table above. For example, the composite decking total is $10k, not almost $16k, but the grand total is the same. It has been very confusing to say the least to try to track actual cost between the initial proposal and draft schedule.
 
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   / Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days #853  
I suppose there is no harm in sharing the detailed cost breakdown.

The builder assures me that we will true-up before the final draft payment and make any adjustments for the changes done throughout construction. I too question some of the amounts in the list below, especially taken into considderation what should already be included in the base price. That said, the total is in-line with the high-end total I got from e-plans where I found the plans originally.

housecost2.JPG


If any of these numbers jump out as being excessive, by all means let me know so that I can use that as leverage during final settlement.

Another thing to mention is that the payment draft schedule is using different subtotals that what is shown in the table above. For example, the composite decking total is $10k, not almost $16k, but the grand total is the same.
Peter,
You need to spend time really working over this list. I haven't, and probably won't, at least with a full public reply, because I don't want to get accused of not knowing what I'm talking about.
I will hint that you should start with your floor plan as originally quoted and the foundation outline. Straighten out the jog, as was done to make the one car garage into a two car garage. and see if there was actually much more foundation " superior wall" by making a straight wall on that side and using the notch back piece to move out the back wall. Same for the materials for the stud wall on that side. Yes, a little more concrete inside for the floor. Were the trusses in the original design going to be the same length as the front over the original garage? Meaning creating a covered porch behind the storage area. If they were the same length the roof would be the same. If they were shorter to just make the normal soffit overhang on the garage roof behind the storage area, the trusses would be a little cheaper but would have created another valley up the roof line to fill in. Whenever a roof changes directions there is usually more material, more waste, and a lot more labor, so going from a 2 car to a 4 car may have actually saved the contractor money. The extended rock facing on the right would have been used on the original 1 car garage to fill to the single car door. Foundation and block behind the extension change would be a little extra.
I can't imagine that the staircase originally quoted inside the house was not made from quality hardwood and railing in the quote prior to your thinking of a circular staircase and me butting in suggesting putting the stairs in the garage. With the skilled finish work for an indoor staircase and trim versus the poured concrete steps in the garage he may have come out ahead there too.
Those were a couple areas where I made suggestions for change so am using them for examples.

Even though you have stepped up to a better quality material in many areas, which I applaud, that usually saves time in labor expense. Take the deck for example. If you have ever put down a 1 x 6 treated lumber deck floor, you know how much time it takes to sort material, turn it the right way, cut out bad sections, pry it sideways before screwing down to keep an even gap in bowed areas, etc.

The interior cabinets and trim work the same way. I would recommend getting pre-finished doors and woodwork for the inside, rather than the ready for stain mentioned in your list.
I spent too many days staining and finishing my oak baseboard, shoe, door trim, and raised 6 paneled doors before spending many more doing the miter cuts, contour cuts on inside corners and staining the cut edges before installing. On the pre-finished stuff all that has to be done is stain the cut miter and contour ends before installing. The slight extra cost for pre-finished will be cheaper in the end than having one of your contractor's subs do it. Of course that displaces a little money out of the local economy, but still should keep it in the ZI.

Another thing to realize is that your contractor, more than likely, gets a percentage discount or credit to future purchases from the suppliers that he regularly uses for material compared to the retail pricing that you are paying or using in your calculations. So when using a percentage, the higher the price of a material the more discount in real dollars. An old time ruff estimate was that 1/3 for material and 2/3 for labor, but since the labor is actually the same or less when using quality materials more of your total costs remains with the home and less drives off in the pick up trucks.
One last point on the ceiling electric boxes. If any of them have or may have fan lights in the future, you may want to have well braced metal boxes in these areas.
Enough for now. The sun is out and 38 degrees which beckons me to do some tractor work.
Ron
 
   / Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days #854  
The Hardy plank sticks out for me, it should be about 10bucks for a 12' stick so you can figure how many you used. My brothers house is the same as yours and it wasnt close to that, and he didnt have near as much stone vener. Also you never answered me before if he was using expansion joints between the joints(which i wouldnt do it any other way) They are almost a buck a piece, Also make sure he is hiting studs when nailing the siding and not just attaching it to the flake board
 
   / Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days #855  
Pclausen - they finished construction on my new house here in Battle Ground, WA 4 months ago if you want some numbers to compare to.

My House - $295,500 on a 1 acre lot. Price includes 2,100 sqft 2 story, 3 beds, 2.5 baths, plus office and loft, 3 car garage, covered front/rear porch, electric furnace plus heat pump, 2 tank septic system w/electric pump and alarm e.g. not gravity fed, 20 feet of swept concrete driveway pad x 3 car wide, aprox 140ft of paved blacktop driveway from the road in to the concrete pad, concrete sidewalk, front porch, rear patio. Hardiplank siding, 30 year comp roof, plus my upgrades listed below.

Note - I do not have a basement or fireplace, also this was a spec home about 30% complete when I purchased it so the builder financed the construction e.g. they look to make more profit vs when the purchaser obtains the construction loan.

Garage - Your 2nd car sounds a bit high at $7,600, my builders price for adding a 3rd car garage is $5,500.

Vaulted Ceiling - my builders price $1,500 per room in sheet rock, I see you are going with stained T&G pine so the added labor and materials for yours sounds about right, they sheet rock VERY fast.

Fireplace - my builder charges $3,800 for a gas fireplace so your wood burning sounds reasonable.

Plumbing/Lighting - Watch this area closely, my builders 'standard' lighting and plumbing fixture allowance were way low, bascially the cheapest China fixtures available so upgrades added up fast. My lighting allowance was $1,200 for like 28 fixtures, that's less than $50 a fixture and one decent ceiling fan at $400 chomps a big hole in that. I spent close to $2,300 on lighting fixtures and that's a mix of going cheap in some areas and nice in others, certainly not high end. Lighting could have easily been $3,000. The plumbing allowance was the shocker, wow my builders 'standard' plumbing fixtures were the absolute cheapest things out there. Bathroom faucet allowance was like $15, toilet allowance was $50, and so on. I upgraded to American Standard stage 4 toilets at $275 each vs his $50 Chinia toilet allowance and that was $825 right off the rip. I upgraded the kitchen sink from stamped stainless to granite composite $300, only modest upgrades to the faucets. Anyway this was the big red flag area to watch out for, flooring was the other.

Flooring - your flooring sounds high at $14,000. My builder was going to install about 500 sqft of Pergo type flooring in the wide/long entry hall, kitchen, dining, back hallway, and half bath. I upgraded to #2 oak 3/4 inch sanded and finished in place and tile in the half bath for $2,600.

Upgrades I added

$2,600 3/4" #2 oak floor sanded/finished in place aprox 500sqft
$2,835 slab granite counters in kitchen includes 38x75 slab for the island
$2,200 slab granite counters in 3 bathrooms, 4 sink cutouts
$737 upgrade all kitchen and bathroom (x3) cabinets to hardwood plywood vs melamine
$300 upgrade all kitchen and bathroom (x3) cabinet drawers to dovetailed hardwood vs melamine
$800 upgrade all kitchen and bathroom (x3) cabinet face frames and drawer fronts to solid Hickory vs knotty Alder
$400 upgrade all kitchen cabinet doors to solid hickory raised panels vs plywood recessed panels.
$428 full extension slides with soft close on all kitchen drawers
$180 add soft close to all kitchen cabinet doors
$4,600 blacktop paving from road to garage concrete pad plus turn around, 11 feet wide.

I'll post some pics for comparison in my next post
 
   / Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days #856  
Suggestion - take pictures of every wall in the house now before they sheetrock, I did this and knowing where studs, electrical, and plumbing are has already come in handy.
 
   / Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days #857  
Some pics and suggestions.

1. I went with charcoal granite in the kitchen, it looks awesome. I went with some desert brown in the main and half bath and uba-tuba in the master bath just to be different but would go with this charcoal throughout the house if I had it to do over

2. This #2 oak floor I wasn't sure about, builder suggested it he's got it in his house. This flooring has lots of knots and variations, I have to say its gorgeous, I have had clear oak floors before this is way nicer.

3. I was drooling for Hickory cabinets forever, they will outlive the house Hickory is tougher than Oak, they look great but honestly Cherry would have been a better fit. Cherry fades quickly and is the most expensive but my sister has Cherry and it looks outstanding.

4. Note the travertine backsplash in the kitchen, this looks fantastic, very craftsman look to it, also went with these 6" travertine tiles for the bathroom countertop backsplash.


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   / Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days #858  
Peter,
In for lunch. A bit nippy outside.
You are getting some good info from the 2 guys above but you can't apply it directly to your house versus theirs. You can use data like this in comparing but you need to do a lot deeper
justification research in your area if your going to get into a P contest with the builder. I agree a lot of things are too high as I gave a clue too earlier today.
I noticed a $1500 allowance for a high efficiency water heater.
You should check with your power company. Many of them will sell you one for very little if you let them have a DR switch on it. Most now days are built into the heater. This allows them to turn
off the juice to it during high demand times. The big well insulated tanks will keep the water warm for days w/o power and they usually give you a break on the KWH rate as well and replace any heating elements free. There still may be a federal government rebate available as well for your water heater, heat pump, insulation, etc. It will help a little bit on the cost to your mom's taxes.
Sounds like now it is time for you to get down to serious business on final pricing. Remember to take into effect any capital gains tax that may apply from your mom selling a more expensive property and moving to this one. There are exclusions for that as well but you probably need guidance from your dad's estate lawyer based on what was done when he passed and what is set up for the future. Not a subject for us TBN'rs to get involved in at all.
Ron
 
   / Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days #859  
Ok time for me to chime in again.
A discount a builder gets is just that a discount a builder/contractor gets. In no way does it need to be passed onto the homeowner. If the builders wants to pass the savings onto the owner that is his choice. In no way is that discount for a homeowner and in no way should a homeowner think they should get that discount.
If you have issues with what the builder is charging for items, the time to bring that up is before the work on those items is started. If you agree to have him do the work at prices he gives you in advance at no point should you ask for a refund or discount once the work is completed. It comes down to the fact if you are happy with his work and you agree to pay what he charges you should both be happy. I would not wait until the end and say "wait a minute that price is high" sorry its just wrong to do so. Anyone in the business would agree. Enjoy the build
 
   / Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days #860  
Paul, I've read the whole thread and love to keep up with it, good stuff. You seem to really like your builder and it looks like he's been doing a heck of a job for you.

I think you may be opening up an ugly can of worms by posting your builder's "price list" above. We all know this site is all about "cheap", in a huge way (nothing wrong with that)...so your "good" builder is probably going to get turned into a "bad guy" pretty quickly here...unless he gives you the house for next to nothing.

I've thought as I've read through your thread ... that I hoped you and your builder were signing Change Orders throughout all the different changes that have been made, but I may have missed that part.

Just a thought (my own, of course). Carry on, and good luck with the rest of the build...don't start hating the guy after the next few pages of how everyone can get stuff cheaper than what you have listed. :thumbsup:

---edit to add----

I definitely think a complete accounting is in order, with all the add-ons/changes/subtractions that have been made. How forthcoming your builder is with this will let you know how good his record keeping is.
 
 
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