Water in Indoor Arena

[dave1949]

I put a few miles of drainage tile in the ground back in the '80's. Frost depth was never a concern.

The frost depth in central Iowa is 35" to 40" in the northern part of the state. How deep did you lay the tile?

I've seen shallow trench clay tiles, pushed by frost heaving over the years, rise into plow depth.

If the standing water is due to a high water table, it is good to keep below the frost such that the water is being continually drained away from that area year-round.

GP hasn't said what the source of water is, it may not be all that clear yet. He just asked about how deep tile should be. I assume he is gathering his options at this point.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Ya, still gathering options. I think it is high water table. I agree it is hard to tell with just one spring under our belt here. We have eave troughs on the barn and arena. This has been a near record for rainfall this spring here, near Flint, Michigan.

I don't think it is water draining into the arena from outside, but rather seeping up from the water logged soil.

The ground is fairly flat, but I can drain away water to some extent, but not sure there is enough fall for draining from 42" frost depth.

There has been a lot of standing water around the farm and yard. But I've begun to put in small drainage ditches to move water out to a low swail.

I think I should give it a week to see if the water table drops.

I hope that I can add 4-6 inches is sand and be good. The arena was dry until we took the material our and spread the remaining sand around.

 

[sailfast]

Ya, still gathering options. I think it is high water table. I agree it is hard to tell with just one spring under our belt here. We have eave troughs on the barn and arena. This has been a near record for rainfall this spring here, near Flint, Michigan.

I don't think it is water draining into the arena from outside, but rather seeping HP from the water logged soil.

The ground is fairly flat, but I can drain away water to some extent, but not sure there is enough fall for draining from 42" frost depth.

There has been a lot of standing water around the farm and yard. But I've begun to put in small drainage ditches to move water out to a low swail.

I think I should give it a week to see if the water table drops.

I hope that I can add 4-6 inches is sand and be good. The arena was dry until we took the material our and spread the remaining sand around.

Digging up your indoor would be a last resort effort.
Put some shallow ditches just outside, surrounding the arena.
That will probably fix your issues. Also make sure that you rake the edges of the arena into the middle. A bowl shape wont help your problem

 

[GPintheMitten]

We have a driveway near the barn and arena. It created a sort of dam that kept water right up against the barn and the corner of the arena.

I cut a swath in the gravel drive to let the water out, and put on a small culvert. Then I dug a shallow ditch from there to a low area a couple 100 feet from the arena.

I bet that will help dry the area out. I'll post back on a week to let you know if that helps drain the arena.

 

[whistlepig]

I think digging up the indoor arena would be a last resort also. I'm thinking the horses would pack the tile ditches so that they would be ongoing low places in the arena for a long time.

 

[bigtiller]

The frost depth in central Iowa is 35" to 40" in the northern part of the state. How deep did you lay the tile?

I've seen shallow trench clay tiles, pushed by frost heaving over the years, rise into plow depth.

If the standing water is due to a high water table, it is good to keep below the frost such that the water is being continually drained away from that area year-round.

GP hasn't said what the source of water is, it may not be all that clear yet. He just asked about how deep tile should be. I assume he is gathering his options at this point.

The frost line around here is generally excepted to be about 4 foot deep. We tried to keep the tile about 3 to 4 feet deep so that it could be farmed over without being hit by a v-riper or chisel plow. But there were lots of times we had no choice but to run a 2 feet deep line at a half-tenth grade until we hit higher ground.

I remember my uncle telling stories about working with his father and grandfather putting in clay tile before world war ll. Most of it was put in 2 spades deep. The man with the first spade set the course, the secound spade set the depth and then the crumb-er followed and laid the tile. There were some tough men back then.

 

[whistlepig]

In my younger days I knew an old man that made a living all his life by digging tiles with a spade. He was the very best for many miles around. He was a brute of a man. Understandably so.

 

[BeezFun]

I figure I need about 4-5 inches of sand.

Asssuming you get your water problem solved- both we and our neighbor have tried various materials for arenas, it's not been easy to find something that works well. Sand that's too deep made it hard for them to run and they came up lame. Also the dust indoors from sand is unbelievable, you'll need to put in (ironically) a watering system to keep it damp or you won't be able to breath in there. If you're boarding horses in there too, they'll have respiratory problems from the dust. They make various materials you can use to spray the sand to keep the dust down, but the stuff I've seen is really expensive. The neighbor mixed his sand with about 50% rubber pellets that some company makes for arenas, that improved the footing but does nothing for the dust. It also smelled like tires for about 6 months until the rubber outgassed. The best thing we've tried is wood chips over compacted limestone screenings. It drains really well, the limestone provides a solid but somewhat flexible base, and the wood chips keep their feet from being abraded by the limestone. We've also trained in arenas that use damp soil, like the rodeos use for barrel racing. That is the best I've seen, but also requires a lot of watering and harrowing to keep it alive and the dust down. You might want to experiment a bit before you commit to something.

 

[sailfast]

Asssuming you get your water problem solved- both we and our neighbor have tried various materials for arenas, it's not been easy to find something that works well. Sand that's too deep made it hard for them to run and they came up lame. Also the dust indoors from sand is unbelievable, you'll need to put in (ironically) a watering system to keep it damp or you won't be able to breath in there. If you're boarding horses in there too, they'll have respiratory problems from the dust. They make various materials you can use to spray the sand to keep the dust down, but the stuff I've seen is really expensive. The neighbor mixed his sand with about 50% rubber pellets that some company makes for arenas, that improved the footing but does nothing for the dust. It also smelled like tires for about 6 months until the rubber outgassed. The best thing we've tried is wood chips over compacted limestone screenings. It drains really well, the limestone provides a solid but somewhat flexible base, and the wood chips keep their feet from being abraded by the limestone. We've also trained in arenas that use damp soil, like the rodeos use for barrel racing. That is the best I've seen, but also requires a lot of watering and harrowing to keep it alive and the dust down. You might want to experiment a bit before you commit to something.

Yes to all of this except the wood chips.

The word chips have the potential to go very wrong. And the sand may be expensive but it is much easier to get right. I suggest talking to more than one Local expert to see what might work best in Your area. Nothing sucks more than frozen footing in the winter, can't always avoid it but get local knowledge.

 

[GPintheMitten]

We won't be stalling any livestock in the arena.

As to what to fill with:

I don't think I want anything organic added that will break down and cause dust or mold. I've heard/read about various opinions on what to fill with. People (experts?) don't agree, so I'm a bit at a loss for finding a local expert.

Materials that I've been told to use include

shredded tires
manure
washed sand
sand
wood shavings

I might as well ask what y'all think.