Wiring subpanel

[yelbike]

So amongst all the confusion, I am going to return my 2-2-4 wire, purchase 2-2-2-4, run two hots, neutral and a ground to my barn panel, unbond the neutral and ground there, install another ground on the ground bar leading to a couple grounding rods. Sound like it should work?

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Yes, that will work just fine. An inspection is always a good idea. The extra ground rods wouldn't be required. But if your going to have cattle in the burn than you really can't have too much grounding. They can be very sensitive.

I have never personally seen an instance where an insurance company denied a claim because a permit wasn't pulled even if required. To be denied a claim you'd have to blatently and purposely do something wrong.

 

[STx]

The NEC says that subpanels are to have isolated grounds so the answer is unless there's a local code that dictates otherwise, the proper way is to not bond the neutral at the sub-panel and to install a separate 8', copper clad ground rod.

When installing the ground rod, it should be driven diagonally into the ground, closer to horizontal than vertical.

From the feeder panel, you will run 2 hots and a neutral, you do not need a 4th wire. I missed it if you indicated the length of the run so I can't comment on the wire size and voltage drop.

 

[GPintheMitten]

The NEC says that subpanels are to have isolated grounds so the answer is unless there's a local code that dictates otherwise, the proper way is to not bond the neutral at the sub-panel and to install a separate 8', copper clad ground rod.

When installing the ground rod, it should be driven diagonally into the ground, closer to horizontal than vertical.

From the feeder panel, you will run 2 hots and a neutral, you do not need a 4th wire. I missed it if you indicated the length of the run so I can't comment on the wire size and voltage drop.

This is totally wrong. You need to run a ground wire from the main panel to the sub. Keep ground and neutral separate at the sub and put in a ground rod at the sub as well.

 

[STx]

And connect the ground wire from the feeder panel to what? If you connect it to your isolated ground, then you've effectively bonded the sub=-panel ground and neutral at the feeder panel and eliminated the isolated ground at the sub-panel...

 

[s219]

GP is correct -- run ground wire to sub panel, install ground rod(s) at sub panel, and do not bond neutral to ground at sub panel. The only bonding should be at the main panel, which is the point where the entire ground system could/would be passing stray current back to neutral.

Panels always have a strap or lug between ground and neutral that allow them to be bonded or unbounded. As a main they would be bonded. As a sub, no.

 

[GPintheMitten]

And connect the ground wire from the feeder panel to what? If you connect it to your isolated ground, then you've effectively bonded the sub=-panel ground and neutral at the feeder panel and eliminated the isolated ground at the sub-panel...

Connect it to what?:

The ground wire that runs between the main and the sub is connected in the main to the ground buss which is, or should already be, bonded to the neutral in the main. The ground wire at the sub is connected to the ground bus which is not bonded to the neutral in the sub. The ground wire bus in the sub is also connected to grounding rod(s) buried near the sub with a ground wire.

Your inspector will verify this info and verify the installation. I always get and recommend a permit and inspections for installing main or sub-panels.

 

[STx]

So again, you've effectively bonded the ground and neutral in the sub-panel. Draw it on paper and you'll see what I'm saying. This is not an isolated neutral. It'll functionally work but can cause issues with sensitive electronics, both in the house or in the barn.

 

[GPintheMitten]

So again, you've effectively bonded the ground and neutral in the sub-panel. Draw it on paper and you'll see what I'm saying. This is not an isolated neutral. It'll functionally work but can cause issues with sensitive electronics, both in the house or in the barn.

The way I described it follows code. The way you described it violates code.

Yes, the neutral wire is connected electrically to ground at the main. That doesn't change the need to follow code.

 

[STx]

I absolutely agree that the code should be followed and if what you're saying is correct, I've misread code. I understand NEC to call for an isolated ground and have installed it as I described more than once with the advice and supervision of a licensed electrician and it always passed inspection...

 

[aczlan]

I absolutely agree that the code should be followed and if what you're saying is correct, I've misread code. I understand NEC to call for an isolated ground and have installed it as I described more than once with the advice and supervision of a licensed electrician and it always passed inspection...

Current NEC code (2011) requires that the neutral and the ground be run separately from the subpanel back to the main panel and that the neutral/ground only be bonded at the main disconnect.
Previously (before the 2011 revision of the NEC code), it was permitted to have 3 wires going from the sub panel(s) back to the main panel.

Aaron Z