Footing AFTER a pole barn is built

[CurlyDave]

What is grade beem construction ?

Also, this is a new build not and addition to my home. Trust me, all help is welcome

A grade beam is a concrete beam which is used to transmit the load from a building to piles, which are significantly deeper than the bottom of the beam. Typically the beam is reinforced with rebar.

For the money you are going to spend on this, you might as well go all out and get a soils engineer to look at your location and make some design recommendations. I have always done this and feel it is money well spent. There are many types of grade beam and it is well worth the engineering costs to get a proper design which will not become a nightmare down the road.

Many grade beams use what are called "void forms" which are essential sturdy cardboard boxes to produce a gap, or void, under the beam to assure that there is no earth contact with the bottom of the beam. {The cardboard disintegrates after the pour.) This means that a frost heave will not raise up the foundation causing failure. Google the term "void form" to see what I mean.

 

[brown40]

16' is a high ceiling. I've fallen from 12' before, and that's not fun! Why so tall?
You didn't mention electrical or plumbing rough-in in the slab, and you may never intend to have either, but its a lot easier to put contingencies in for cheap before the slab gets poured than to do it later.
If you're getting roll-up doors you can insulate them yourself with contact cement and double bubble insulation for about a third of what they charge. Its definitely worth doing.
Attic trusses for additional storage are really nice options for relatively little cost. I used greenhouse panels on the to 4' of my walls and the ambient light in the building is exceptional--don't need to use lights during daylight hours at all--even reading literature and doing fine work. Was more money than plywood, but way less than windows, and goes up fast and easy.
The only other recommendation would be a standing seam roof and radiant insulation beneath that. Architectural shingle are pretty--I get to see the top layers of them on lawns and in the street when the wind hits 70 and the glue lets go--they also add way more weight to the top chord than traditional shingles. I see standing seams that outlive their owners all over the place...

 

[Deere Dude]

I would think having thin brick would be the easier route to go. No footing to mess with and they look nice.

 

[Gary Fowler]

The only other recommendation would be a standing seam roof and radiant insulation beneath that. Architectural shingle are pretty--I get to see the top layers of them on lawns and in the street when the wind hits 70 and the glue lets go--they also add way more weight to the top chord than traditional shingles. I see standing seams that outlive their owners all over the place...

I just saw on the news, a newer house that the metal roof blew completely off a house and landed almost in one piece up against some trees. Likely it wasn't installed right though because all the roof rafters looked undamaged in the news video. I don't think I have ever seen a metal roof just lift up and blow off in a solid piece like that one did. It looked like a typical tract home with their usual shoddy construction shortcuts whenever possible.

Back to the pole barn, If you have to dig down 4 feet for a ledge beam for the bricks, then I see no advantage to doing a pole barn, just go with a conventional house type structure for however they do the houses in your neck of the woods.

I did quality assurance management on a refinery job in northern Canada and non of the foundations had footers that went below the frost line (frost line was 13 feet or more there). Instead we put down 6" of high density foam under the foundations to absorb the frost heave. There was also a 1" layer when needed around the perimeter to absorb any horizontal movement. This is much cheaper than pouring 4 foot of concrete footer OR more. The blue High Density foam isn't cheap but compared to digging down 4 feet or more into the ground and pouring concrete or putting in compacted gravel and then concrete, it is much less.
Check with your local soils engineer (per Curly Dave's suggestion) and ask about using HD foam under the slab. Then you can just put in a standard grade beam around the perimeter to hold the bricks and the wall /roof load and no need for the poles for support. Just use standard 2x6 or whatever dimensions needed to support your 16' walls.
Down south we put grade beams under concrete slab construction on the perimeter PLUS under any load bearing wall on the interior and all tie back to the perimeter beams.

 

[KennyG]

I think the brick veneer is going to be a lot cheaper than the required foundation and brick ledge if you are OK with the look. I have had good luck with floating slabs and grade beams in freezing climates but I don't think I would go that way with brick loads.

 

[KenB2920]

Lots to respond to.

Lots to think about

Lots to ask about


As for the look of the thin brick, it's the same as the full brick just "thin". They start big and are cut down. So it would look identical to the house ....


Even if the footing was dug after and brick installed, wouldn't the lumber for 2x6 also cost way more than the sticks of a pole build ?

 

[joeyd]

It is no problem for them to but a brick veneer wainscot on the exterior of a pole barn, just like on a stick built home. Why a different size door in the rear? If it is to drive thru wouldn't you want the same size door? You didn't mention anything about heating?

 

[KenB2920]

It is no problem for them to but a brick veneer wainscot on the exterior of a pole barn, just like on a stick built home. Why a different size door in the rear? If it is to drive thru wouldn't you want the same size door? You didn't mention anything about heating?[/QUOTE

I never really had the thought of it being "drive thru" but more less of a rear acces for tractor etc

The reason for a large front door

1), taking numerous pieces of advise from others .... This way I can fit essentially anything roadworthy inside.

2) A few of my neighbors have motor homes.

The one just built a barn and a month later bought a coach. Needless to say his doesn't fit in the door

... Now I have no intent on getting a motor home but if I ever do (or camper etc( then I'd rather be set up for it.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Even if the footing was dug after and brick installed, wouldn't the lumber for 2x6 also cost way more than the sticks of a pole build ?

Let's look at a 16x32 section of wall:
For pole construction you'd lay girts horizontally on 24" centers, you'd need 9 to span 16', and two runs to span 32', or 18 total. Depending on the pole spacing you might use 2x4 or 2x6. At my Home Depot a 2x4-16 is $6.27 and a 2x6-16 is $9.20. So total cost is $113 to $165.

For framed construction, you'd have studs vertically on 16" centers, you'd need 21 to span 32', plus two bottom plates and two top plates, or 25 total. Total is $230. So it would cost $65 to $117 more. That's pretty insignificant in the scale of the project. If you start having to do fancy things to make the pole construction work with the brick that money is going to vanish quickly.

The take-away is that when you're evaluating competing construction methods you have to look at the entire cost.

If I understand correctly, your need is for brick on one side, a gable end, with a garage door. That wall is not load-bearing and it won't have foundation under the door. With a 16' door in a 32' wall there is just 8' of foundation on either side of the door. I would have a concrete footer to the depth of the pole on each side of the door and then conventional construction going up. That's really not a very big hole, I've dug holes that size by hand in half a day. The only question is whether to do it at the same time as placing the pole or after the poles are in place. I think it would be easier to dig the trench with the poles not in the way.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Just re-read and saw the front door is 14'. So nine feet of footer on each side of the door. Doesn't change the conclusion.