Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety.

   / Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety. #1  

Dadnatron

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
1,113
Location
Versailles, KY
Tractor
JD 5100e with FEL
I have 3 options for a driveway install.

1st is the most desirable location for driveway, but has total road frontage (county road with interspersed large trees) with roughly 680ft total frontage giving a max of 340ft site distance either direction.

My 1st preference would be to have the driveway at the Green T point on the pic. But at the East end of the road, there is a small hill (at the current driveway) which precludes visualization over it. And to the West, there is the slight turn in the road at the large LIGHT BLUE *.

A 2nd alternative would be the BLUE T point on the map which gives a slightly better sight line both ways as it is almost in the direct middle of the 680ft. Again, it has the same hill to the East and turn to the West, but it is more central to both.

3rd is the least desirable (for me) but has a total frontage of 860ft giving a midline driveway possibility with 430ft site distance either direction. But this would probably be the 'safest' when entering the road, given its longer 'stopping distance' available to anyone coming around the corners onto this short straight stretch.

As can be seen on the Sat Map, there are lots of trees lining the road... right on the road, along both sides. This is a very rural but paved road in Kentucky Bluegrass. I don't know the actual legal speed limit, but the typical drive speed is around 35-40mph along most of them. This hill and these small turns slow people a bit.

My conundrum is that 3 gives a 'better' sight line theoretically, but is more inhibited by trees. It would allow for a longer 'stopping sight distance' than either 1 or 2 however. I also like this location the least for my land.

1 and 2 are much more preferable to my goals, but has a shorter stopping sight distance. However, there are also fewer trees in the way to block visibility to the person entering the road.

I know that I have seen 'sensors' put into roads which will alert drivers that a car is coming on a poorly visible street. When a car has crossed the sensor, it causes a 'light on a cross street' to blink, thereby notifying the cross street traffic someone that can't be seen is close by and on the way. I don't exactly know how they work, but would assume they are magnetic and in the roadbed. I was thinking that given the limited sight distances on ALL locations, that perhaps I could install an alert sign for both directions on the road as well as the driveway. But, I don't have a clue where I would begin looking for something like this, and I was hoping someone out there would have some insight into something along those lines.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? I will need to solve this problem before I can begin road construction on this part of the property.

Driveway questions.JPG
 
   / Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety. #2  
Well I don't know your area, but looking at the pic, I can't believe 5 cars a day use that road. I hate bad sight lines from a driveway, but a lot depends on the traffic. With minimal traffic, you may be overthinking it. Is there really any traffic there? If not, put it wherever it makes sense for you. If you think suburb expansion is coming and it might be a lot busier in the future, then perhaps you have some more thinking to do about where is best.
 
   / Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety. #3  
Not sure how far #1 is from the turn and that would be a concern for me but it looks like you could maybe improve your line of sight by taking down one tree between your proposed location and the turn. How far from #1 to the turn? Maybe #2 is a good compromise if you think #1 just is too close. With respect to #3, it seems that 430ft (almost 1 1/2 football fields) of stopping distance is way more than needed for 35-40mph. I wonder if there are any civil engineers lurking here?
 
   / Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety. #4  
Sometimes the state or county will make the choice for you, no matter what you want.

Are all these choices really available?

Bruce
 
   / Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety. #5  
Put it in any location.
Where I am working , my main access is to 45mph truck route. I have 150 sight distance to the left due to curve.
I have not seen accident in the six months I have worked here
 
   / Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety.
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Sometimes the state or county will make the choice for you, no matter what you want.

Are all these choices really available?

Bruce


This is something I am endeavoring to ascertain. But finding the 'people' who make that decision is more difficult than it would appear reasonable.

I have 'heard' 5 sec stopping distance. But I don't have any idea whether that is accurate nor whether that relates to this property, given that I don't know that ANY of the options available on this road would qualify.

I am in the process of finding the person in Zoning who would have the specific information.
 
   / Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety. #7  
Wouldn't it be Department of Transportation people, not the zoning people?
 
   / Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety. #8  
If you are going to have a mailbox out there, maybe you should check with the post office. Their delivery vehicle is the one most likely to get wacked by a careless driver or passed by a speeder who then hits an oncoming head on. If there will be a schoolbus making stops on the road, check with them, too. Same reason.

In my experience, the 5 cars a day roads are the most dangerous because the few cars who travel it will always be well over the speed limit. Winter especially. As long as you can see cars to the left of you for exit and entrance, you will be OK.

Put your driveway where its message will be: "Anybody coming up this drive had better have a good reason to be here". Plant lines of trees along it and set the house where you can see the few vehicles a day that travel the road. The car cruising for trouble is the one you want to discourage: Gates, fence, alarms and signs.
 
   / Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety. #9  
When the DOT was approving a driveway for my property, (power line project), I talked to the inspector and he stated the usual requirement for a sight line is ten times the speed limit. According to him my current driveway would never get approved if I filed for the highway permit today. The local speed limit is 35mph I would need at least 350' of sight line in either direction for approval.
 
   / Driveway install - Short site lines. Need alternatives to improve safety. #10  
I have a 30' easement from the county road into my property. Driveway location was not a concern. I have approximately 500' line of sight in either direction. This is all well & good. The real concern is those that drive like a BOH on the county road. I alway wonder - where in the world is the fire???
 
 
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