Foam insulation - Making cabin from prebuilt shed

[EddieWalker]

There were some past reports of metal rusting after being foamed. This was linked back to a corrosive material that was being used in the ISO. That material has long since been discontinued.

Open cell foam has been applied directly to metal in our area (zone 3) for many years with no reported problem.

Mueller is where I get my metal for roofing and the sales guys that I've spoken to there have told me that if open cell foam insulation is used on their buildings, they will not warrantee it. I don't know enough to argue with you about the ingredients in the foam being the cause for the metal rusting out, but as of a few months ago, that's what I was told at Mueller in Kilgore TX.

I really appreciated your post and information into the changes in foam technology and hope it becomes more affordable. I am personally planning on adding on to my house and I want to foam the ceiling.

As to the original poster and what he should use for a weekend cabin, would you spend the money to spray foam it or fiberglass it? What would you think the cost difference would be to hire somebody to spray foam it compared to an easy do it yourself project if he installed the fiberglass himself?

 

[Raised on a Deere]

Mueller is where I get my metal for roofing and the sales guys that I've spoken to there have told me that if open cell foam insulation is used on their buildings, they will not warrantee it. I don't know enough to argue with you about the ingredients in the foam being the cause for the metal rusting out, but as of a few months ago, that's what I was told at Mueller in Kilgore TX.

I really appreciated your post and information into the changes in foam technology and hope it becomes more affordable. I am personally planning on adding on to my house and I want to foam the ceiling.

As to the original poster and what he should use for a weekend cabin, would you spend the money to spray foam it or fiberglass it? What would you think the cost difference would be to hire somebody to spray foam it compared to an easy do it yourself project if he installed the fiberglass himself?

I am glad to pay an extra $k or so to make sure the structure is impervious to cold windy weather and troublefree. I plan on hanging out in it for a month or so at a time. I posted to get all slants on this I could before doing something in haste that I would blow the whole setup The information on this site is absolutely wonderful coming from a lot of talented successful folks who are smart enough to figure it out or else have been there done that and are willing to share.

If I had more time I would like to build a cabin on a closed cell foam insulated concrete pad.

 

[AGRIMAN]

Mueller is where I get my metal for roofing and the sales guys that I've spoken to there have told me that if open cell foam insulation is used on their buildings, they will not warrantee it. I don't know enough to argue with you about the ingredients in the foam being the cause for the metal rusting out, but as of a few months ago, that's what I was told at Mueller in Kilgore TX.

I really appreciated your post and information into the changes in foam technology and hope it becomes more affordable. I am personally planning on adding on to my house and I want to foam the ceiling.

As to the original poster and what he should use for a weekend cabin, would you spend the money to spray foam it or fiberglass it? What would you think the cost difference would be to hire somebody to spray foam it compared to an easy do it yourself project if he installed the fiberglass himself?

Eddie,

Sorry for my delayed response, we have been up to our eyeballs in alligators here lately. To add to it, my blue heeler managed to break her leg, so most of this morning was spent at the vet (on a holiday weekend).

Anyway, It's not surprised about the metal suppliers. I think everyone tries to cover their back side these days. Do they have any issues with closed or it just open? As I said, we are in zone 3 and the question I have and can't seem to get a good answer to is what effect would doing the same (open cell on metal) in zone 6 or 7, where the winters are much longer and colder have? Any thoughts?


There's a lot of new things coming and it will be interesting to see what happens. One of the main reasons we went with our equipment supplier was there commitment to both the foam industry and us. When something new hits the market, they are eager to tells us about it and set up training classes for their customers. Without good suppliers it would be almost impossible to keep up. This is not a "brand new" thing, but have you ever seen anyone lift/level concrete with foam? We attended a training source a few months back and it's amazing what it will do. Definitely something we are considering.


As far as the cost difference between foam and fiber. That's sort of a hard question as I don't have all the details, but with some assumption on my part, I would say somewhere around $1,500. Would I use foam or fiberglass? If it's going to be used more than occasionally (which I think is the case) and I could come up with the extra $1,500. It would be money well spent in my opinion.

By the way, I don't think we should argue about any of it. We can share differences in opinion, maybe some debate and you never know, we may both learn something.

 

[AGRIMAN]

Additionally the spay foam had to painted by code. Paint was to stop vapor transmission even tho at the thickness we had sprayed it was not needed.

I know codes can vary greatly, but I have never seen one that required the foam to be painted. Unless you referring to the adding of a ignition barrier etc. as painting.

We often paint foam (in a shop/shelter) that will be left exposed, but that's mainly because foam has no UV protection and will turn a mustard yellow.

Most people want to keep the bright white look, so we paint it white.

 

[AGRIMAN]

If I had more time I would like to build a cabin on a closed cell foam insulated concrete pad.

We have never sprayed closed cell for a concrete pad yet, so I have no direct experience, but from what we have heard, it works really good.

 

[BuilderML]

I think and I may be wrong but, raised on deere is referring to building on a concrete pad which has been poured over rigid foam not spray foam.

Agriman,
Mind if I ask where you are from? Curious what you charge for closed cell? Around here closed cell is roughly $1-$1.5 per sq ft per inch of material.

To the OP stick with the closed cell, just my recommendation. Here is my view on foam and again just what I recommend to people.
If you have the funds and want the best closed cell is the only way. And no chit about it closed cell is really the only way the to go in some instances. If funds are a concern I recommend doing a hybrid, which consist of a 1" closed cell foam application followed by fiberglass over in the walls and blown-in for flat attic spaces.
Just .02 more cents of info for you.

 

[AGRIMAN]

I think and I may be wrong but, raised on deere is referring to building on a concrete pad which has been poured over rigid foam not spray foam.

Agriman,
Mind if I ask where you are from? Curious what you charge for closed cell? Around here closed cell is roughly $1-$1.5 per sq ft per inch of material..

It's possible that I misunderstood what he was saying, but I now closed cell foam is being used under contrete.

We are in mid/south Ga. We are at $1 per sq ft per inch on closed cell.

 

[Weedy Fields]

When we were talking over our new house construction with architect and builder the comment about "not enough payback" came out about insulation.
I asked what is the payback on granite counter tops, solid hardwood floors, and marble tile?
There is none, it will never pay its self back, yet I have never heard of an architect or builder saying whats the payback to those features.

And then there are features that suck money from you and are a negative as far as payback, like 10ft ceilings.

It got my point across, added insulation over code is always a benefit. It reduces the cost of heating your house, it reduces the cost of the heating system, and it reduces the amount of electricity needed to move the heat around in your home.

So I'd say this, if you can afford better and or thicker insulation then go for it. You will never regret it.

Also if I'd ask if the OP is going to do the fiberglas batt insulation himself. If he is and he is willing to take the time to do a good job then go for it. If he is hiring that out I'd definitely say go with the spray foam. Fiberglas insulation has many draw backs, one is it has to be installed with care to get a decent job.

 

[Raised on a Deere]

Bravo on the payback discussion. One thing I would add. Well insulated spaces are more comfortable as well as all the other benefits you mentioned. I am well aware of all the workmanship problems and lack of understanding how to use dead air and vapor management that defeat fiberglass. Foam takes care of most of those issues automatically unless as some posters mentioned you get a bad install.

If my build was a crawl space I probably would save the money and fiberglass it. Does a very good job. But my build will be inches above the ground. Plan on building floor joist and laying plywood then lifting to expose for foam installer. After that there will be no more chance to deal with problems. My prebuilt barn guy will handle all that prior to delivery. I hire the foam contractor and show up at the builder to do the foaming.

After delivery and placing on foundation I described in earlier posts and anchoring I will plumb, wire, do open cell in walls and rafters. All my previous experience is with insulating ceiling with vented attic.

This build has the whole space sealed with no venting at the eves and a 1" crawl space where only bugs and other critters can crawl. Those considerations prompt my original post. This whole scenario works for me if when done it will hold up for perhaps 20 years. Closed cell is expensive but will work in the crawl space if I am reading the concensus here correctly. Open cell with drywall will work on the interior and roof rafters to seal the entire space.

 

[forgeblast]

I bought a diy kit, from foam it green. They supplied a bunch of tips and tyvek suite (it bunched up got some foam on me and tore hair off my arm). What I did was prep the entire area, drop cloths all over taped and stapled where I wanted it, ladders in place etc. That way when I sprayed I kept going. If you stop for 60 seconds then that tip is ruined and you replace it with another. It was very easy to use, like a paint gun.
It came in two lp grill tank sized tanks. The company even emails you when the temperature is right in your area.