Post frame shed?

[petebert]

I want to get a shed. Park the riding mower in it and get all the kids stuff out of the garage, bikes, sports gear etc.. So I started looking at all the shed options at Menards, lets say somewhere around 10x10 in size. I don't plan on pouring concrete so I'd have to figure out how to anchor most of the sheds. Don't care for the idea of a shed floor much. It will rot over time and create a great rodent habitat, plus I would need a ramp to get the mower in. So now I'm thinking, why not do a post frame shed with a dirt floor? Menards has premade 12' shed trusses for around $50. Sounds pretty simple to me, just sink some 4x4s in the corners and go with metal siding. Essentially a very small pole barn.

 

[EddieWalker]

Pole barn buildings are the most cost effective and simplest of all buildings to create.

 

[jrdepew]

I want to get a shed. Park the riding mower in it and get all the kids stuff out of the garage, bikes, sports gear etc.. So I started looking at all the shed options at Menards, lets say somewhere around 10x10 in size. I don't plan on pouring concrete so I'd have to figure out how to anchor most of the sheds. Don't care for the idea of a shed floor much. It will rot over time and create a great rodent habitat, plus I would need a ramp to get the mower in. So now I'm thinking, why not do a post frame shed with a dirt floor? Menards has premade 12' shed trusses for around $50. Sounds pretty simple to me, just sink some 4x4s in the corners and go with metal siding. Essentially a very small pole barn.

I agree with Eddie. If you want a dirt or gravel floor, pole building is the way to go. Even though it is a small shed, I would still likely use 6x6 posts, rated for buried ground contact. It may change based on location, but in NY with clay soils I dug a hole to below frost depth, about 16" in diameter. I then used the hand held post hole digger to make the bottom of the hole a bit wider. Then I put some gravel in the hole, tamped well. Then concrete in the hole to create a concrete cookie to set the post on. We had very heavy clay soils, so instead of encasing the pole in concrete, I set the post on the cured concrete cookie, leveled the post, then backfilled with the heavy clay and tamped it extremely well (this is very tiring work). I did that all the way to to top, and then 4-6" above to avoid water staying near the pole after a rain. The structure was extremely solid.

-Joe

 

[Raised on a Deere]

I agree with Eddie. If you want a dirt or gravel floor, pole building is the way to go. Even though it is a small shed, I would still likely use 6x6 posts, rated for buried ground contact. It may change based on location, but in NY with clay soils I dug a hole to below frost depth, about 16" in diameter. I then used the hand held post hole digger to make the bottom of the hole a bit wider. Then I put some gravel in the hole, tamped well. Then concrete in the hole to create a concrete cookie to set the post on. We had very heavy clay soils, so instead of encasing the pole in concrete, I set the post on the cured concrete cookie, leveled the post, then backfilled with the heavy clay and tamped it extremely well (this is very tiring work). I did that all the way to to top, and then 4-6" above to avoid water staying near the pole after a rain. The structure was extremely solid.

-Joe

I am still amazed at how old some of the old time pole sheds last and how useful and well they work. One thing I want to research is how to provide some degree of moisture barrier beneath the dirt or gravel. First thing of course would be to elevate the floor to provide good drainage all around perimeter. But would some plastic under the gravel help ward off the inevitable moisture soak for things piled on the floor, or if not would it slow the process down. Gravel would just punch it full of holes, but maybe slow moisture down enough to be beneficial, - or is there a kind of membrane that would work under about 4 or 5 inches of gravel with daily traffic

My sons are picking up on the build what you need that you can afford idea. Hoping to guide them into building their cheap building in a way that stands solid long after I am gone. My grand father taught me the art of tamping wax clay around the poles. But dirt floors were just dirt floors Built on whatever slope there was.

 

[Sysop]

Keeping the building drafty is how you'll keep the moisture from the ground controlled. Lots of the hundred-plus year old barns have existed as long as they have by having steady airflow to keep things dry inside. Don't seal the walls with large panels that don't breathe. Old timers used 10-16" wide boards with small gaps between. Leave a small gap around the bottom for air also. Venting the roof is good to let heat out too.

 

[KennyG]

I agree with Eddie. If you want a dirt or gravel floor, pole building is the way to go. Even though it is a small shed, I would still likely use 6x6 posts, rated for buried ground contact. It may change based on location, but in NY with clay soils I dug a hole to below frost depth, about 16" in diameter. I then used the hand held post hole digger to make the bottom of the hole a bit wider. Then I put some gravel in the hole, tamped well. Then concrete in the hole to create a concrete cookie to set the post on. We had very heavy clay soils, so instead of encasing the pole in concrete, I set the post on the cured concrete cookie, leveled the post, then backfilled with the heavy clay and tamped it extremely well (this is very tiring work). I did that all the way to to top, and then 4-6" above to avoid water staying near the pole after a rain. The structure was extremely solid.

-Joe

Good advice here except I would backfill the holes with gravel (3/8 to 1" because it compacts well) instead of clay. This will keep the post much drier. For the size of shed you are looking at, 4x4 provides plenty of strength. Sometimes they warp more than larger posts, which is the concern but I have found them to be OK. A compromise is 4x6. My 40 x 48 pole has 4x6 on 8 foot centers and it's fine after many years. Before you build make sure you check local codes. Most places in Michigan are under code and they usually allow a certain size building without a permit. In my township it is 120 square feet. I would always suggest building exactly the largest shed you can without a permit.

 

[petebert]

I'm in a ag zone, if it's an ag building no permits are required. I do want to continue the roof beyond the building to provide a summer shade shelter for sheep, that makes it an ag building right?

Most of our soil is pretty sandy. I just had a 6-7' hole dug the other day and it was sand all the way down. There is clay on some parts of the property, near the barn I found clay 3-4' down. I'd probably do 4' holes with premade footings dropped into the hole. Gravel would be a good idea, would stay solid beyond my lifetime I'd think.

 

[s219]

Yeah, simple small pole barn is a great idea. But make it bigger! No sense going to that much trouble for a 10x10.

 

[boggen]

bring in dirt if you have to. to raise the shed up in the area so water will run away from it.
make sure gutters get put on and run that water away from shed as well.

run a couple 2x8's or something from dirt level on up. maybe a few more boards higher (depends on sheep) animals love kicking and scratching. and will bend/twist/wreck metal siding. also the boards act as a "tractor FEL" stop. so when ya cleaning out the pig pen of poo and piss. you have something to possibly hit. and you will hit the side.
with the metal siding starting up above the 2x8's. it keeps the metal siding in better shape and good condition longer.

tongue and grove 2x8's or 2x6's. might be consider for boards on the sides. and just giving a little spacing when hanging them up. the tongue poking up into the grove. still allows some air to flow through, causes water to run off the tops, and allows for some expansion/contraction of the boards. by the lumber cheap. and get a router and put the tongue/groves in yourself if you think it is worth going to that trouble.

 

[EddieWalker]

Good advice here except I would backfill the holes with gravel (3/8 to 1" because it compacts well) instead of clay. This will keep the post much drier. For the size of shed you are looking at, 4x4 provides plenty of strength. Sometimes they warp more than larger posts, which is the concern but I have found them to be OK. A compromise is 4x6. My 40 x 48 pole has 4x6 on 8 foot centers and it's fine after many years. Before you build make sure you check local codes. Most places in Michigan are under code and they usually allow a certain size building without a permit. In my township it is 120 square feet. I would always suggest building exactly the largest shed you can without a permit.

In my experience, it's too great a gamble buying treated 4x4's for anything taller then a porch railing. Even then, it's iffy. I've seen 4x6's bend like a bow, but not as often as 4x4's. For me and what I do for clients, I will only use 6x6's.

I don't understand how gravel keeps moisture out of a hole? Seems to me that it would hold water longer, and it would also provide a void for moisture in the surrounding soil to travel to. If your soil is good clay, then it's fine for back filling. If not, spend the money on concrete.