To bond or not to bond neutral and ground in new electric service panel?

[buickanddeere]

I will be starting a project soon. My old code books are long gone. I will check out what Lowes has probably next week and try to give my opinion on what I get to help me with current code and report back. Remember those books are somewhat generic and not necessarily in tune with local inspector interpretations. Mine is a generator. There is more than one opinion on such a system called "a separately derived system" about earth grounding of the generator. That has changed over the years. Stand alone portable generators used in the field are another subject covered under the OSHA Safety codes; used for building emergency power is the NEC.

LOL, Ron

Some differences if your generator floats it’s neutral or if the generator’s neutral is bonded to the generator’s frame and receptacle ground prongs.

 

[prichard]

Well admittedly I could have and should have explained that better . This is why all the ground rods/plates for the main service and sub panels should all be bonded together with a dedicated ground cable and on bojdnto neutral made at the utility service . Overhead supplies with a triplex cable cause some complications .

Gotcha. Right, the reasoning behind the code change from 3 wire and separate ground and bond at sub panel.

 

[prichard]

Thanks for emphasizing the importance of getting it right.

Home Depot, Sunset, etc publish DIY books. Are there any at moderate cost that might be sufficient for a single DIY remodel project that would pass inspection?

Whatever you do don't ask advise from the guy working at home depot. I've heard some of them give some very dangerous advice.

Everything I know of that I trust is geared towards pros and pricey.

 

[California]

Recognize this? H. P. Richter Wiring Simplified.

1947 edition. Lots of knob&tube, plug fuses, etc as well as more 'modern' stuff.

There was a copy of this, I think this edition, at the ranch when I was a kid.

It may be the most accurate description for the older parts of of what I'm dealing with today.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Some differences if your generator floats it’s neutral or if the generator’s neutral is bonded to the generator’s frame and receptacle ground prongs.

My 17.5 KW Generac has a floating neutral. There is a ground bar that bonds the green ground from the panel via the 4 conductor cord and plug connection. When hooked up and running the generator frame is the then same potential as the as the house system.

Operating in the field the generator would need to be grounded to allow the GFCI breakers to operate properly on the 20 amp GFCI outlets. The 30 and 50 amp outlets are not GFCI. The GFCIs operate when the frame is setting on the ground but no if on a truck or trailer. At that point I suppose you need to somehow bond the neutral to the frame ground??

Ron

 

[grsthegreat]

My 17.5 KW Generac has a floating neutral. There is a ground bar that bonds the green ground from the panel via the 4 conductor cord and plug connection. When hooked up and running the generator frame is the then same potential as the as the house system.

Operating in the field the generator would need to be grounded to allow the GFCI breakers to operate properly on the 20 amp GFCI outlets. The 30 and 50 amp outlets are not GFCI. The GFCIs operate when the frame is setting on the ground but no if on a truck or trailer. At that point I suppose you need to somehow bond the neutral to the frame ground??


Ron

i know what your saying, but a portable generator never needs to be grounded. i have even ran into a few generators that have the 240 outlets gfci'd, and they have issues with hooking into a house. the generators gfci outlets will trip when hooked into a grounded house system. most generators with a gfci 240 outlet tell you to disconnect a bonding jumper within generator if hooking to a grounded system. it does start to boggle the mind when you see all these different rules and how they really act in the real world.
my electrical supply houses dont even carry a 3 wire overhead triplex wire anymore, as it is against nec rules to use for an outbuilding. they carry the newer quad cables. but you can still get the triplex wire at home depot. home depot can care less what the rules say. they will sell anything.

 

[ultrarunner]

^^^ Here all the old detached garages use two individual strands of Number 10 on porcelain insulators from the back porch to the 10 x 16 garage ;-)

Over 60 to 80 years the insulation on some original installs is long gone.

I had to approach my new neighbors a few years back because she was using the overhead wires to hang wet laundry to dry... no fooling... and this is why the code book keeps getting thicker!