Qustion about framing the front of Root Cellar

[rickyb01]

I have a opening that is 7' tall and 20' wide. The walls and top and bottom are poured concrete about 8" thick. I will be framing up the opening with 2x6's and will use wedge anchors on the bottom plate to secure it. I am thinking about using wedge anchors for the top and sides also to secure my 2x6 to the concrete. I will frame up a 36" exterior door and a 12' swinging barn doors. Do I need a header above the 12' door opening. Since the top is poured concrete and I will have a 2x6 top plate I really don't see the use of a header.

My initial plan is to box in opening with 2x6's secured to concrete with wedge anchors. Frame my 36" door and the 12' opening just use the one 2x6 as the top rail. I understand to double the 2x6's for support where the hinges will attach but just don't see the reason to put a header in. Am I correct in this thinking or totally missing something.


Also do you guys think that 3/8 wedge anchors will be sufficient? I don't see any reason to go with 1/2"

 

[/pine]

I have a opening that is 7' tall and 20' wide. The walls and top and bottom are poured concrete about 8" thick. I will be framing up the opening with 2x6's and will use wedge anchors on the bottom plate to secure it. I am thinking about using wedge anchors for the top and sides also to secure my 2x6 to the concrete. I will frame up a 36" exterior door and a 12' swinging barn doors. Do I need a header above the 12' door opening. Since the top is poured concrete and I will have a 2x6 top plate I really don't see the use of a header.

My initial plan is to box in opening with 2x6's secured to concrete with wedge anchors. Frame my 36" door and the 12' opening just use the one 2x6 as the top rail. I understand to double the 2x6's for support where the hinges will attach but just don't see the reason to put a header in. Am I correct in this thinking or totally missing something.


Also do you guys think that 3/8 wedge anchors will be sufficient? I don't see any reason to go with 1/2"

No headers required as there is no load on the frame other than the doors...
I would use treated plates top and bottom and except where the heavier doors are mounted 'Tapcons' should be enough to anchor the plates...wedge anchors are overkill IMO...
Depending on how heavy the doors are some let in bracing may be prudent if the wall is only getting covered with sheetrock etc...plywood or OSB will help strengthen the (double) door jambs...

 

[RNeumann]

8” concrete by itself isn’t designed to hold its own load for a 20’ span. If something else isn’t supporting the concrete then yes you will need to frame with headers. If I missed that part or am not picturing it right then the answer is as stated above- not really on the 3’ span and do a little more on the 6’ span. And tapcon GRK etc 1/4” anchors are fine.
Btw- anything that touches the concrete should be pressure treated in my mind- bottom plate, top of top plate and both studs that touch the side walls.
Also add some type if sill draft stop to all sides too.

I’d frame this by attaching the bottom and top plates and then hand framing each stud in place. The studs should be tight enough to need a couple good hammer strokes to get in straight.

 

[rickyb01]

Thanks for the replies and it is nice to know that tapcons screws are enough. The walls of the building were poured and then a big piece of metal was placed over the walls and then the roof was poured. I don't know if this answered your question about if something else is supporting the concrete. I will be using treated lumber and basically building it like you guys described. The header over the 12' doors has me puzzled. Rick

 

[RNeumann]

A 12’ span is a long ways for any piece of lumber placed on its side. This is the condition found above your opening. You will want to make sure that piece of lumber is either big enough that it won’t sag (header) or if you don’t have the height for a 1’ tall beam (it doesn’t sound like you do) then make sure the lumber up there is attached to the concrete and the top plate.

 

[rickyb01]

I actually do have some room and have no problem with using a 4x6x12 for a header. If that will help support the doors I will do that. Since I was tying the top plate into the concrete I didn't no If I should use a header or not. The most header I could use would be 4" so thought a 4x6 would work perfect If a header is needed.

I will also leave the inside of the framing open meaning no sheet rock or plywood but on the outside I will be adding cypress boards and batten strips.

Do you guys think that 2x6's are overkill. I can just as easily use 2x4's for the framing.

 

[/pine]

2x4 16"OC will work fine...you will need blocking to fasten the B&B...
I must be missing something...if there is nothing but open space there now why would a header be needed? if you are not adding load on top of the frame aver the doors and there is nothing there now...there is no call for a bearing header...just secure the top plate across the 12' opening and use it as as door stop...

 

[RNeumann]

I actually do have some room and have no problem with using a 4x6x12 for a header. If that will help support the doors I will do that. Since I was tying the top plate into the concrete I didn't no If I should use a header or not. The most header I could use would be 4" so thought a 4x6 would work perfect If a header is needed.

I will also leave the inside of the framing open meaning no sheet rock or plywood but on the outside I will be adding cypress boards and batten strips.

Do you guys think that 2x6's are overkill. I can just as easily use 2x4's for the framing.

Skip the 4x6 and just make sure the top of the door is securely attached to the top plate.

2x6 in your scenario is strictly for greater insulation. Given it’s a root cellar I’d go for 2x6 and also make sure the doors are sealed and insulated.

 

[rickyb01]

Thanks guys I appreciate all the advice. It痴 not a actual root cellar as far as us using it that way. It is built like a root cellar and giving that description to paint a mental picture. 2x4痴 and no headers. Tsk Ricky

 

[EddieWalker]

I don't see any reason for a header when the existing span has worked for however long it's been there. Is there any cracking in the concrete or sign that it needs additional support?

I'm not a fan of tapcon screws. They work, but they also spin out a lot of the time too and then you have to add plastic to the hole to get some sort of grip. If you are using treated wood, and that's a good idea when attaching to cement, you will need a fastener rated for contact with the chemicals in the treated wood. Stainless, galvanized or specially coated fasteners with the ACQ rating.

Using a SDS hammer drill, it's super fast and easy to drill the holes for ACQ galvanized wedge anchors. The cost is a bit more then anything else, but not so much that it's prohibitive. I would also run a thick bead of good quality silicone or caulking along the board before attaching it. This will keep out the wind and most of your bugs. Then when you tighten up your anchor bolts, the caulking will seal it all over. I love how tight I can get an anchor bolt, especially when it starts to crush the wood. Then I know it's secure and I'll never have to mess with it again.

You can buy them in a box of ten at Home Depot or Lowes. 1/2" by 5" are the ones I always use.