Drainage Problem/Watering Solution

[Birdhunter1]

If you do this then dig your trenches for the perforated pipe about 18" wide and as deep as you need to go, then line it with landscape cloth and then lay in a few inches of rock, then your pipe then cover it with rock shy of a few inches from grade and wrap the landscape cloth over the top, then grade over with dirt.
The landscape cloth will act as a filter for dirt and sediment, the rock will act as a filter as well but the fabric will filter stuff out before it gets to the rock then the rock will filter it out well and you won't get near as much sediment in the pipe and it won't fill with dirt near as quick.
Also if you want to pick up the water quick turn your holes in the pipe down, any sediment that gets in will go downwards later on and water will get in the pipe sonner than if the holes were up hgih. Plus your water level would have to raise to whatever height your holes are.

I am dealing with the same kind of thing over about a 1 1/2 acre section of my yard. What I am doing is creating ditches about 6-8" deep and they are wide and graded so when mowing it won't be a hard thump under the mower when you drop in a ditch. the whole ditch area is about 6' wide a anywhere from 6"-8" deep.

If you have any flat bottom ground farmers aroudn you go look at there fields and see what they do. They do basically the same thing I am doing but they do it with a power ditcher and a large tractor. The same thing can be acheived with a blade angled forward and tilted hellaciously down on the angled side. This is what i am doing and woudl have done if it weren't so wet right now. I may have to wait till summertime when the groudn dries out more.

 

[Clyde]

Here in Wisc, we had the DNR(Dept of Natural Resources) itself build their new area headquarters in an area that had standing water and cattails. They filled it in and built their building along with parking lot. No public hearings, no nothing!!!! I guess when you think you are God, you can spread the waters in any manner you deem applicable. They are the first ones however to slap a fine on you if you build retaining walls to prevent erosion from the lake water....and don't you dare pull a tree out of the water that fell in a tornado. Another thing I don't quite understand is if I want to build an outdoor privvy for myself. I now need a permit to the tune of $5.00 per year while that pretty looking holstein can expel her waste right next to me. Go figure. I feel better now. Thanks guys! Clyde

 

[Ryno1]

I agree with those who say some of the wetland rules are all wet but just a warning - in your 2nd or 3rd post you say that it's not a wetland area BUT drains into a wetland. Be carefull what you let drain into the wetland area. I'd say you better check this out very carefully. May want to keep the horses competely out of the wet drainage area.

 

[rambler]

Wetland, DNR, USDA, etc just gets me all riled up, so.......

Drainage tile used to be clay pipes 4-12 inches around, a foot long. Dig a trench with a tile spade, lay the tiles end to end, cover up with dirt again.

Then they got tile machines that dug the trench, and formed the tile out of concrete.

Now they have tile plows & plastic tile on big rolls, put it in like underground wiring.

You want the trench 2 feet deep at least, & you hate to go more than 4 feet deep. It all needs to flow downhill.

If the water ponds, you can put in a tile intake - just a concrete vertical tile up to the surface.

The tile must go somewhere - to a ditch, normally. In clay around here, French drain is a worthless joke. Wouldn't bother with that idea. You need the tile to come out to the surface, but it can't run uphill of course. So you need to find a low spot to run it into.

Miles & miles & miles of tile, mostly concrete under this small farm.

Generally you don't need to bother with the sock/ fabric, and rocks will just puncture the plastic. Just burry it in the dirt. If you are at the low spot but don't want to put in an open tile intake, you can put a load of gravel or smooth small rock in that spot to fill to near the surface - allows the water a path to drain down.

However, the tile mostly lowers the level of the ground water, pulls it down the 2-4 feet. Makes a layer of dirt on top that stays drier, then when it rains the water has somewhere to go, fills the ground & then slowly drains out to the tile again.

Typically no need to put lines closer than 100 - 150 feet, sometimes much farther. Most likely one small line will set you up fine for you small needs.

--->Paul

 

[Highbeam]

Great advice. We have been advised that fabric will do nothing but clog the system sooner than if you had just left it out.

Tell me though, if you are digging into clay for this trench you don't want to use the clay as backfill do you? Seems it would seal up the trench. Maybe gravel to the surface.

Another option we are seeing in the NW is backfilling these trenches with crushed rock. The crushed rock has smaller voids and slows the spoiling of the rock by sediment.

Another option is a socked pipe and sand backfill. Sediment other than sand will have a hard time moving through the sand around the pipe. Basicly a more effective filter. The sock keeps the sand out of the pipe.

 

[weedsportpete]

Paul, could you say a little more on the subject of tile in clay? I've got heavy clay soil. I'm guessing by your words that tile is useless.. Is it because the clay soil is so thick, that water can't drain through it into the tile? Next year I want to start doing something to get rid of the water, a lot of it standing water, and the mud it creates, from our horse pastures and the shutes going out to them. Three of our pastures are small (1/4 to 1/2 acre) - I could landscape them to have swales, or I could put in drains with the ditches filled in with rock. Nothing sounds good.

Peter

 

[rifflerunner]

Thanks for all that responded, I think I know how I will tackle this project now. I had an excavator look at it and he just wanted to put in a gradual sloping (from side to side) ditch , but I dont like this idea because I think it will just turn into a mud hole with horses walking across it. I dont think I really need to do the Y design since its only one spring and follows a constant path (mostly underground). I think I will put perforated pipe and rock at the beginning(maybe the whole way)leading to a field drain pipe which will come out of the ground at the end of the pasture and flow into a hole I will dig(for watering purposes) overflow that hole into a ditch that leads down a side hill. Thanks all again

 

[Investorguy]

I have clay too that I'm going to need to drain. Am I hearing right that all will be good if I just trench and lay perf pipe and backfill w/ gravel?

That'd be a lot of gravel....

 

[rambler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have clay too that I'm going to need to drain. Am I hearing right that all will be good if I just trench and lay perf pipe and backfill w/ gravel?

That'd be a lot of gravel.... )</font>

Well, my farm is yellow clay 120 feet deep for the most part. It does seal up, & water doesn't perk through it very well. But, with several miles of tile, couldn't afford gravel or rocks or etc.

The tile will drain the clay. My fields are rolling hills. So, I do not have muchflat area to drain. Mostly tile to the low spot, put in an intake to let the water run in.

However, the soil will drain. The tighter your clay is, the closer your lines need to be if you are draining a flat area. Might need them 50 feet apart, I've heard of less. In more open soils, 150 - 200 feet works fine.

Just remember, the tile drains your soil all day long. It lowers the water table. This allows room in the ground for the next rain.

In a low spot I would put in a load of sand or whatever to allow a place for pooled rainwater to drain away faster. You only need a channel to the surface now & then, not the whole trench full of sand.

I happen to have a 3 acre hill of shale sand, doesn't grrow much. So I use that to make my sand intakes. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

One of my fields is so low, when it rains 2 inches or more north of me the ditch will fill up, & the tile will run backwards intot hat field, drowning out 4-5 acres. And it might not even have rained much on my farm!

--->Paul

 

[Investorguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Well, my farm is yellow clay 120 feet deep for the most part. It does seal up, & water doesn't perk through it very well. But, with several miles of tile, couldn't afford gravel or rocks or etc.

The tile will drain the clay. My fields are rolling hills. So, I do not have muchflat area to drain. Mostly tile to the low spot, put in an intake to let the water run in.

However, the soil will drain. The tighter your clay is, the closer your lines need to be if you are draining a flat area. Might need them 50 feet apart, I've heard of less. In more open soils, 150 - 200 feet works fine.

Just remember, the tile drains your soil all day long. It lowers the water table. This allows room in the ground for the next rain.

--->Paul )</font>

My field is flat, w/ a nice subtle slope to it. I could angle the tile toward on side or out to the street.

If I'm burying it two feet, how big should the pipe be? How about the trench itself? Thanks for all your help.