How to build a tractor path out of cement?

[rox]

My hsuband has to take the tractor up some really step slopes, and the tractor path has become quite eroded. It is pretty scary. So I think we should cement the tractor paths that go up the big hills. Some of our farmer freinds have cemented theirs so I know I am not crazy for wanting to do this.

We have an electic cement mixer. The first path I want to do is about, say 60 ft long. The neighbor Claude said that we can pour the cement right on the dirt, we don't have to lay down a gravel bed. We just found out we have a very nice saw that cuts cement.

I am thinking to pour about 4 inches tall of cement, will be enough for the tractor.

Right at the bottom of the hill is our house, my husband always has to make a 90 degree turn immediatly upon reaching the bottom of the hill. It's gnarly, you go straight down a steep hill then at the bottom you have to make a 90 degree turn.

These are the challenges.
How to divert therain water as it is traveling downhill on cement towards our house? I don't want all that water in our basement.

It is going to be just me and my husband, Claude said to mix the cement at the bottom of the hill then put the cement in the 3PH wagon on the back of the tractor, drive the tractor to the top fo the hill and dump/shovel out the cement. he says work form the top down. No way are we going to get that thing poured in one day. What is the harm in pouring in sections? It does not snow or freeze in our area. Like we pour 5ft per day or something like that.

We would put forms on the sides, and then jsut stick a bord between the side forms for what we could pour in one day. The next day move the middle board down and pour another 5ft or so. What is wrong with this plan?

We have rebarb and Claude said just to use the rebatrb in the middle of the cement and we will be fine with about 4 inches tall. Also that cool saw we found int he basement, Claude says it cuts the rebarb we just have to change the blade from a cement blade to a metal cutting balde. There are several blades taht go to that super dooper saw.

An additional pice of information we have a pallet of cement, a big pile of sand and a big pile of pea gravel that came with the farm when we purchased it. Oh and the rebarb also was there.


I would appreciate any tips on how best to do this project with the least amount of work, and knowing that it is just for the tractor, I guess it will be about 6ft - 8ft wide.

I know we hve to put up forms on the sides and there are plenty of planks around here for that. The boards are 2 by 8's and we are not gong to fill up 8" so I'm not totally sure how to get it level becasue the side boards will be a lot taller than the finished 4" so we can't pull another board across the cement to get it level. My husband says less water makes the cement stronger but to me it is harder to work with. We did one small hill only about 4ft long to test out working with cement. Based ont hat experience I tend to want to make it more watery so that it is easier to smooth around with the trawl, but I am open to advice on that point.

Many thanks to all who take time to reply. It is going to be a few weeks until we start but I like to think it through first.

 

[hilld]

Rox,

I would suggest you "texture" the concrete slabs similar to a herringbone pattern. This will get the water off to the side as well help with traction with muddy tires. I would run a drain pipe periodically so you don't end up with the water in your basement, unless you want an inground pool of some sort.

See my crude drawing for the pattern I am talking about

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Derek

 

[zeuspaul]

Terminology- Cement is the *glue* used in making concrete. Concrete is made from cement (grey powder) sand and gravel.

It is true that less water makes a stronger concrete. The rule of thumb is use just enough water to make a workable mix. So you are both right as you need enough water to make the concrete workable.

What is your native soil? Clay or sand? Clay does not make a very good base material. If it is clay you may want to consider adding gravel for a base. If you can clump the soil into a ball it has a lot of clay.

Not a suggestion...just a thought. Do you have a tiller for the tractor? You may be able to stabalize the soil by adding *cement* to it and then tilling it in. You still need to grade such that the water runs away from the house. Later you could add concrete to the top if it doesn't work out.

I would skip the rebar. If you are just using a little it won't do much for you. The key is good base preparation. Rebar won't help if there is a week base.

I would grade down about the thickness of the concrete so that the finished product is almost flush with the adjacent grade.

Zeuspaul

 

[Highbeam]

Since you are working with the base ingredients a good rule of thumb is 3-2-1. 3 shovels of gravel, 2 of sand, and one of cement. Then enough water to just get it workable, more water makes weaker concrete and wet concrete rolls down the hill easier. 4" is plenty thick so long as the base is good and solid, that's the thickness used in residential drivewways in our area. I would cut the 2x8" planks into 4" pieces so you can use the form boards to strike the concrete to one level. It is no fun to try and get a level surface down in the forms. I don't remember if you have a loader on your tractor but if you do, don't forget that the loader bucket makes a fine wheelbarrel that you can dump accurately. Rebar doesn't hurt but it isn't necessary if you can get 4" thick on top of a good base plus if you ever need to replace any of it the rebar can make it very difficult.

The water running down is a grading problem. Gravity is your enemy and your friend. You need to adjust the grade of the road to direct water away from the home.

Good luck and there is nothing to lose but your time. Even broken up concrete is a better driving surface than mud.

 

[egonegon]

Rox:

First off check the cement to see if it has retained it's original quality. Also try and determine if the aggregate will be a good mix of fines to large so less cement is used in the mix. This may be difficult but sometimes the eyeball will suffice. The object is to have a dense a gravel as possible.

Have you considered a concrete path for each wheel rather than a full width path. Mixing and pouring ain't no fun.

Think about casting paver blocks and then laying them down. Concentrates the hard work at the bottom. Eliminates rebar. Allows for latitude in traction aiding design. [ cobble stone roads ]

I would suggest the area be graded prior to placing cement.

Consider placing water diverters along the way and at the bottom. Someting to funnel the water to the side or slow it's flow velocity.

The Portland Cement Association will have lots of advice. http://www.cement.org/tech/

Egon

 

[rox]

hilld/zeuspaul/highbeam/eagon,

Many thanks for your suggestions. As with all projects you visualize then in you mind step by step and once you ahve the most of it visualized then you can start. All fo you have helped me visualize the project.

I do think I need to take a skill saw and saw won the planks, but would I saw them to 4" if I wanted to pour concrete 4"? Would I saw them to 6" and then burry 2"? How exactly would that work? The tractor path is erroded, we really don't have any way of grading it, we don't' have a box blade and no front end loader, so any grading we would have to do by hand. We have a relaly relaly powerful roto tiller but on that slope I would not want my husband to do that, it seems to dangerous.

The only thing I can think of is to pull a string and keep raising it until it clears the highest point, then go up 4" form there. Does that sound reasonable? Other ideas on that?

I really did enjoy the paving bricks in the sand project we jsut completed on the Borie. I have half a mind to go over to the building center and fine out how much those pavers cost and do it that way insead of solid concrete. We ahve a pallet of bags of cement, wouold that even be enough I wonder? I have no idea.

I think our soil must be a sandy clay, but basically you could say it is rocky.
A big huge concern is the water, we get rain a few omths of the year I rather think it msut be like Texas that way. So although it doens't rain often in our rainy months of January and February it can rain for days on end and a lot of rain. I do like the desing that hilld provided. I am thinking (out of the box because I dont' ahve any experinece with concrete) that I would cut 2 panles of plywood in triangular shapes and kind of use them as a cookie cutter to push down the concrete to get the shape that Hilld has provided. Well maybe jsut one plywood cookie cutter because I think you want the center inverted V shown in his diagram to be taller, so you would push down to the right and left of the center inverted V.

I think the tractor path should be higher than the surrounding ground, right? Or is it level with the surrounding ground?
I am pretty sure that the sand and gravel we have is the right stuff to make concrete. That is what the previous owner bought it for.

Could anybody offer advice on if it is okay to pour like 5 ft a day until you are done? if we do that do we leave a gap between pours of the next day fill up to where we left off yesterday?

Again a few weeks away form the project but I have already moved the cement mixer in place so I look at it every day which is motivating. Fro the moment we are picking almonds and will be doign that for a good 3 weeks. I think we are about 1 month away form this project but I can't help thinking about it and trying to figure out how to do it.

My guess it that we have about 20 bags of cement. Is that enough?

 

[zeuspaul]

Rox

6 ft wide by 60 ft long and 4 inch thick is 4.5 cubic yards of concrete. The standard mix is 5 sacks of 90 pound cement per cubic yard of concrete so you would need a minimum of 22.5 90 pound sacks of cement. For 8 ft wide you would need 6 cubic yards of concrete or 30 large sacks of cement. Cement also comes in smaller 60 pound sacks (around here...what size are yours?)

Six sacks per yard will give you better concrete. 8 ft wide and 60 long and six sacks per cubic yard would be 36 large sacks of cement.

Perhaps the two 2 ft wide concrete runners under the wheels would suit your needs as earlier suggested if you are trying to make do with what you have.

Zeuspaul

 

[zeuspaul]

Rox

I would put the concrete on top of the ground. It is too much work to dig down 3 inches by hand. You can then build up the ground in some places at the edges with gravel as needed. If you use small pavers then digging in would be recommended to contain the paver.

How much gravel do you have? The easiest way to finish grade would be to use the gravel to fill in the eroded areas.

You won't be able to do any major grading by hand. You can make drainage ditches to keep the water away from the house. How does it drain now?? Does it drain to the house now? Why will it be different after you pave?

Do you have any measuring tools (hand level?)? Can you make a little map showing us ground elevations? It is difficult making grading decisions without more info about existing conditions.

Zeuspaul

 

[zeuspaul]

Rox

Lots of questions!! You don't need to bury the form. If you want 4 inches of concrete then use a 4 inch form. Cutting a long board down the middle is a LOT of work! Do you have access to 2 x 4's??

Zeuspaul

 

[Egon]

As suggested:

Place the concrete on top of the ground. Grass sod should build up around the edges given time.

Also consider:

A drag for leveling the original ground [ if the ground is suitable for this type of action ]
Placing crushed gravel on the finished wet pour and tamp it down. This should help for wet weather traction. Also easier and more effective than trying to get a ridged effect. Makes finishing easier too!

Finish the edge of each pour with a tongue or notch to tie into the next pour.

Cover the pour with plastic to prevent rapid drying of the surface.

Pick cooler days for the work. Concrete will not set up as fast and personal rehydration will require less malted water!

Wear gloves and rubber boots when placing concrete and keep tools clean using water. This is important for the mixer.

Also consider an extra shovel or so of cement for a stronger concrete.

Seal the curred concrete with a 50/50 mixture of linseed oil and kerosene.

Egon [ all advice 40 years out of date ]