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  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    41
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Tractor
    Deere 790

    Default Small businesses - learn from my mistake

    Some of you may be running a small business iwth your tractor and this might apply.

    I'm addressing this to other small business owners that have faced the need for financing to expand their business. And having learned the hard way, thought that I'd offer up some warnings.

    I need a larger melting furnace and the cost is about $90K. Talked to my bank and was told "shouldn't be a problem, that's not a lot of money". They were happy to lend me 80%. Since I didn't have 18K setting around, especially with the astronomical increases in steel and alloys, I was SOL.

    I received several faxes from leasing companies and contacted a couple of them for estimates. Nationwide Business Credit LLC in Irvine CA called several times to follow up and actually offered a package I thought that I could afford with 84 month term. I received the paperwork for the 84 month term via email, signed it and sent a check for $3900 (1st and last months payment + doc fee) via UPS next day letter. Didn't hear a word form them for 2 weeks then they sent a new document for a 60 month term and asked for another $1900. "the 84 month was not avaiable". I responded that I didn't want a 60 month term and that I wasn't proceeding, please send my money back. According to the documents that I signed and they didn't, they are entitled to $895 document fee.

    After that I got another local bank to fund the project and proceeded with them. Nationwide is refusing to return my deposit money stating that it was I that screwed the deal. To me and everyone I've discussed this with it is a "bait and switch"; attorneys, consultants and the like. Nationwide has offered to send back 15% of the money and hold the balance for funding of some other item if I want.

    I'm in Michigan and the company is in California. A local attorney, who I should have consulted when I first received the documents, thinks that I'm pretty well screwed out of the $. It would cost more in attorney fees to sue them that what I am out.
    Mail fraud? Nothing went through the USPS.
    Responding to broadcast faxes: mistake.
    sending money and signing a document that the other party has not yet signed: mistake
    learn from my mistake. I've entered a complaint with the BBB of California Friday and am warning as many as I can about this fraud.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member AchingBack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,052
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Tractor
    Mahindra 2615HST

    Default Re: Small businesses - learn from my mistake

    Immediately, contact the California Attorney General, Fraud Division. The BBB might fire some BB's, but you need a nuke, and you need it now. You have been robbed. This company commited a felony. UNLESS, you forgot to read the fine print.

    I hope all goes well.
    I thank God for these gifts: 2005 Mahindra 2615 HST w/loader, (485 hours), and 3710 backhoe. Markham tooth bar, Bush Hog SQ60 rotary cutter, Bush Hog 3507 angle blade, Bush Hog LLR84 landscape rake w/gauge wheels, Rankin loader mounted forks, Paumco Quick Spade, Agri-Ease 3 point log splitter.

  3. #3
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    256
    Location
    central, pa
    Tractor
    1998 nh tc21d

    Default Re: Small businesses - learn from my mistake

    Metalcaster,

    I always turn the decision of purchase or lease over to my accountants so I can take full advantage of all tax breaks, he then research's any residual payment owed at the end then it goes to the attorney. If you have inventory, look into a local medium sized bank with assets around 300 million and inquire about asset based lending for your small business. It worked well for me in the begining and they didn't tie up any of my real estate. Thanks for the heads up on newly found crooks.

    Brad
    TC21D HYDRO R4S, AND TURFS , Woods LS84 FEL, NH 914A 60"MMM, HF QUICK HITCH, LEINBACH RB

    I may not play the game, however I always know the final score.

  4. #4
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    83
    Location
    central pa
    Tractor
    Ford 1510

    Default Re: Small businesses - learn from my mistake

    Wow that's rough. That kind of loss would really hurt my small business. I just make it clear to folks that may want to screw me that I dispose of bodies for a living

    About the mailed contract. I mail contracts to out of state customers all the time and here is the rule, never, ever send a customer a signed contract. The customer signs the contract first then sends it back to me for my signature then I send back the cpoy. There is a reason for this. Several years ago a competing monument company who's owner I happened to be friends with got burnt by sending the customer a presigned contract. The contract was for a headstone with the agreed size and price noted. When the customer got the contract they changed the size of the monument to a larger (and more expensive) headstone. Unfortunatly my friend did not notice this and she proceeded to sign the contract and return it. Once the stone was done and installed the customer called complaining the stone was not what she ordered. After checking the contract and seeing it was changed my friends lawyer informed her that she was required to fullfill the contract as it was when she signed it. So not only did she have to provide the larger stone at the lower price, she was also out the cost of the original stone she made.

    That is why you did not receive a signed contract. When you get unsigned contracts in the mail always have a notary make a notarized photocopy to prevent the other guy from changing the contract terms before they sign it.

  5. #5
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    443
    Location
    Nottingham, N.H.
    Tractor
    2009 MF 1531 TLB

    Default Re: Small businesses - learn from my mistake

    I did that with my work truck,I am at the end of my buyout. I had to put a lot down and tie up another piece of equipment as collateral. The finance guy at the finance company left shortly after our deal. I'm in NH, lease company is in Kansas,they were bought out during my lease. My insurance company had to make them beneficiary on the insurance ,every year they would call for renewal of insurance. They could have been a little more efficient,things did eventually turn out.Next piece of equipment I'll deal with my bank instead. The finance company was tied into the tank-truck manufacturer, that is how I got them........Hope you get it straightened out. I get stuff on my fax all the time,I'll have to pay atention. plowking

  6. #6
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    254

    Default Re: Small businesses - learn from my mistake

    The "Nationwide" moniker seems to be popular with scammers. Here is an article about another company using the "Nationwide" name.

    Business scams that failed miserably - CNN.com

    "Nationwide Moving Systems" was a moving company in Washington state that would extort additional money from its clients after they got their household effects on the truck. The owner of the company was eventually found guilty of 27 counts of extortion and one count of fraud. Unfortunately - he only got 7 years in prison.

    Joe

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    41
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Tractor
    Deere 790

    Default Re: Small businesses - learn from my mistake

    Well God continues to favor me. I posted an online complaint with BBB and low and behold the company mailed a check for the entire amount. Their response was not accurate, but sent the check to "ensure customer satisfaction". Deposited it today and am awaiting clearing prior to closing the BBB complaint file. But it seems to have worked.

  8. #8
    Elite Member AlanB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,531
    Location
    Clarksville, TN, USA
    Tractor
    NH 1925

    Default Re: Small businesses - learn from my mistake

    Wow, good end result and a lesson learned on minimal expense.

    Glad it "somewhat" worked out without loss of that money.

  9. #9
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,022
    Location
    Ohio
    Tractor
    JD 5520, 790 TLB-- Kub L4300, B7800, MX5100

    Default Re: Small businesses - learn from my mistake

    I would play the mega lottery with a couple of those bucks--after the check clears--because the odds of winning the lottery and the odds of you getting your money back must be about the same. Even now I would be a little nervous about the check.
    God is surely looking out for you. Congratulations!
    ******

    May I be the kind of person my dogs think I am,

  10. #10
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    186
    Location
    alabama
    Tractor
    kubota 3130

    Default Re: Small businesses - learn from my mistake

    Metalcaster what kinds of metal are you pouring?

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