Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right.

[riptides]

Originally Posted by toy

Before I give my opinion on what has happened to our country I would like to thank cat driver for making a list of some of the companies that have moved their manufacturing out of this country

Ahh.... companies today are global. Manufacturing can be but a small part of a company. It is not the only part. And manufacturing itself can be made up of distributed global operations.

The company I work for is on that list. But the vast MAJORITY of our WORK PRODUCTS and
WORKERS are in the US of A. Thank you. And we ARE investing HEAVILY in manufacturing, design and engineering HERE in the US of A, thank you. And we are building out other portions of out company here in the US of A, thank you. I know some of our competitors on that list are doing the same.

Sorry, but that list, IMHO, gives on the wrong impression for this string.

[jdbower]

Originally Posted by whistlepig

We can't even make beer anymore with out help.

Wait, when did Budweiser start making beer instead of that carbonated yellow water?

Originally Posted by Cat_Driver

and there's these...

I'm kind of confused about some of the entries on the list. 3Com, for example, is known for low-end home computer gear and they probably never had any significant manufacturing in the US so "moved manufacturing overseas" is probably not correct. Adobe Systems is one example of a software company - they don't sell any manufactured products and most of their development is still US-focused. But as a global company they've got offices around the world. Similarly, Alamo Rent A Car is a service and if they've expanded into China it's probably a good thing - if I had to hop a flight to Beijing to rent a car for downtown Dallas that would be an interesting business model. Amazon.com is just a website and to my knowledge at least the US flavor is hosted in the US simply because it's cheaper than using transoceanic Internet connections (similarly, Amazon.co.uk is hosted in Ireland by the looks of things). I'll skip to the end now for WorldCom. Not only is it a services company who don't manufacture products, but it would also be horribly expensive for them to route calls from NYC to Boston via Shanghai. To make matters worse, they also don't exist - they changed their name back to MCI and then were purchased by Verizon (who's also on the list).

Perhaps the source of the list has more information as to what exactly they're listing and when the list was made? Personally I think it would be useful if they broke down the list by manufacturing location, call center outsourcing, expanding into the foreign market, or whatever other criteria they use. And then breaking things down further by percentages is another good idea, if the Tier 1 call center support is in India and they ask if you plugged your computer in and then escalate to Tier 2 support who sit next to the developers that's just an efficient use of funds.

[MossRoad]

Originally Posted by Cat_Driver

I just have to shake my head every time I hear about another American company going down the drain.

As long as we are clear on a couple of things...

One being that the company that makes the hummer(AM General) isn't going down the drain... the company that markets it and sells it(General Motors) is.

And two, most of those companies that you listed are not going down the drain. They are doing well as companies.

As soon as cheap shipping via large boats became possible, the geographic location with the cheapest labor gets the manufacturing business. Pretty simple, really. Until the U.S. labor market comes down in price or the current cheap places come up in price there is no labor incentive for a business to manufacture things here in large quantities.

Not only do we have to compete for jobs with the rest of the countries in the world, we now have to compete with the other 49 states, the next county over and even the next town over. We could whine and complain about jobs moving anywhere if we wanted to. It is just a big of an impact to a town for a factory to close up and move across the state as it is for them to move to Mexico. The people in the town are still unemployed. It doesn't matter to them if the factory is 500 or 5000 miles away. It is still gone!

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by MossRoad

One being that the company that makes the hummer(AM General) isn't going down the drain... the company that markets it and sells it(General Motors) is.

Yes, I mentioned this in my original statement. AM General is a privately held company that still holds the military contract and is not any part of GM. Their contract to produce and sell our military Humvees is still intact. AM General seems to want their vehicles referred to as "Humvee" to separate themselves from a "Hummer" (a look-alike) made and sold by GM.

[scott_vt]

Originally Posted by toy

Before I give my opinion on what has happened to our country I would like to thank cat driver for making a list of some of the companies that have moved their manufacturing out of this country, but that is just a partial listing I feel it is much larger than that.

Good Mornin Toy,
I can only speak with any kind of authority on but one company on Cat Drivers' list. That cpmpany would be Pitney Bowes.

I worked for them as a modelmaker/ toolmaker for just about 20 years. This fall I will have been seperated from the company for two years. The last few years that I was there, I watched more and more work go over seas. Obviously the company was trying to bring its products to market with minimal costs to maximize their profits. My problem with all of that, was it wasnt working on many fronts ! What do I mean by that claim ? We repeatedly sent entire projects to China, for both engineering development and later on manufacturing. What China sent back to us weres machines that didnt work ! We in turn sent our engineers over there to straighten out the problems, on numerous occassions. When it became apparent, that the only way that the product was going to be launched, was to bring the entire project back to the states, re engineer it and test it over here, thats precisely what they did ! How could we possibly make money by going through all that baloney ?

I knew the company was in trouble, when upper management was seeking input from its rank and file workers, on what direction the company should be headed in respect to new business ! As a blue collar worker, I felt that if I could offer advice on saving time on a particular process, I would do just that ! But I felt that all those over priced Ivy Leaguers' running the top slots of the company, should bemaking the decisions on future business direction ! JMO !

In the end Im glad Im out of that rat race, I sure dont miss any of it !

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by scott_vt

In the end Im glad Im out of that rat race, I sure dont miss any of it !

On a similar note, I always claim that I've been fired exactly once in my life and have never applied for a job since. On a technicality, that's not precisely true according to my last employer. They claim that I wasn't "fired", just "laid off", because my job was eliminated; due to an overseas company buying the company. Being since they told me that my "lay off" would be permanent, isn't that "fired"??

Anyway, I can proudly stand in line with those who had a job eliminated (and was therefore fired - if you're in a similar position, feel free to call it what you want, I just prefer to say I was fired) due to an overseas company.

[2manyrocks]

Well....it does make a difference if the factory moves 500 miles v. 5,000 miles. An employee might move 500 miles to keep a job, but hardly anyone would move to China to keep one at Chinese labor rates. It also makes a difference whether the job stays in the US or is moved overseas from a balance of trade perspective, and it makes a difference whether we retain productive capacity in the US versus sending it to China. In the long term, what will happen to production costs when Chinese workers want to make more? Will prices go up and then US buyers have no competitive choices to buy elsewhere because all the production equipment is then located in China? The other thing that is going on here is that these companies are really trying to cut labor costs in order to increase their profitability. So the guys at the top make more and the US production workers get cut out entirely. If US production workers don't make good incomes, where are these companies going to sell their products?

[scott_vt]

Originally Posted by Dargo

Anyway, I can proudly stand in line with those who had a job eliminated (and was therefore fired - if you're in a similar position, feel free to call it what you want, I just prefer to say I was fired) due to an overseas company.

Good Mornin Dargo,
I guess I can stand in that line with you !

Originally Posted by 2manyrocks

. If US production workers don't make good incomes, where are these companies going to sell their products?

Good Mornin 2manyrocks,
I guess all we have to do is look at todays economy to answer that question !

[MossRoad]

Originally Posted by Dargo

. Being since they told me that my "lay off" would be permanent, isn't that "fired"??

No. You get fired for being a dumb###, like checking the tank level of a fuel truck with a cigarette lighter (I fired a guy for that). You should be ashamed if you are fired. Unless, of course, your boss is a $#%%#!!! and fires you for no good reason. That is not your fault and nothing to be ashamed of there. Just angry!

Getting laid off is not your fault and there is no shame in that. Just a business decision. A sucky one, but still just business.

[Skyco]

The company I work for is on that list and they don't manufacture ANYTHING! They also are majority American owned. I wouldn't put much faith in that list.
Layed off is very different from being fired in my book. Like Mossroad said fired is what happens when it IS your fault. Layed off can happen to anybody through no fault of their own.

Toy- I didn't read your post. No offense, but you really need to learn about paragraphs.