Liquid Natural Gas and Propane prices

[EddieWalker]

I've been hearing on the news that there is a huge surplus of Natural Gas, but really didn't think too much about it until I read this story.

Energy crisis is postponed as new gas rescues the world - Telegraph

I've always said and feel that there is no energy crisis and that we have plenty of fuel. Every year, more and more oil is found then ever thought possible. Now we're hearing that new technology is making natural gas available in quantities that the experts never thought possible.

If Washington can stay out of the way and allow business to distribute it, prices should drop and remain low. The big question is how badly will it be regulated and what additional taxes will be added to it, or even worse, will they close off access to it so we can't get it here like they've done with our oil reserves?

That said, I'm wondering how the supply of Liquid Natural Gas will affect the supply and price of Propane? Are the two related in this? Would it be reasonable to expect the price of propane to decline with the lower price of natural gas?

Eddie

[kenstrac]

Propane prices will go down only if the use of oil and natural gas goes up it is a byproduct of of refining oil and NG, so if there is a lower consumption of NG and oil there will be less byproduct to make propane. I know you did not want to here that.

[hbhayman]

Natual Gas is one of the resoures we have that replentious during our lifetime it's a bonus when an oil well comes in and natual gas field is on top of it

[dave1949]

To know that we have energy resources is certainly good news.

This part of the article is the bad news. None of this energy comes without a cost.

Shale gas is undoubtedly messy. Millions of gallons of water mixed with sand, hydrochloric acid and toxic chemicals are blasted at rocks. This is supposed to happen below the water basins but accidents have been common. Pennsylvania's eco-police have shut down a Cabot Oil & Gas operation after 8,000 gallons of chemicals spilled into a stream.

It's sad that someone who doesn't want a stream turned in to toxic waste disposal site is referred to as 'the eco-police'.

Also from the same article:
Nor is it exactly green. Natural gas has much lower CO2 emissions than coal, even from shale which is why the Sierra Club is backing it as the lesser of evils against "clean coal" (not yet a reality). The US Federal Energy Regulatory Commission said America may not need any new coal or nuclear plants "ever" again.

We all need energy, but we cannot afford dirty energy in the long run. Let's be realistic about what the costs are and what it takes to get clean energy.

Dave.

[charlz]

This is a great link to learn about propane:

Propane Prices: What Consumers Should Know

I installed a pellet stove so I wouldn't have to heat with propane due to the cost here out West. Pellet heat runs about 50% cheaper. Propane demand must have dropped way off with construction mostly coming to a standstill. This year is the first year my propane company has ever called me about a summer fill rate... and it was $1.66 .. about $1.00 cheaper per gallon then it was a the peak of the last heating season. Since installing the pellet heater only my stove and propane or I may turn on the furnace if we get a cold snap the pellet stove can't cope with. I haven't filled my 500 gallon propane tank in 4.5 years or so and still have 66% left

I am hoping they will run natural gas out this way soon so I can get rid of the tank etc.

[dave1949]

Originally Posted by charlz

This is a great link to learn about propane:

Propane Prices: What Consumers Should Know

I installed a pellet stove so I wouldn't have to heat with propane due to the cost here out West. Pellet heat runs about 50% cheaper. Propane demand must have dropped way off with construction mostly coming to a standstill. This year is the first year my propane company has ever called me about a summer fill rate... and it was $1.66 .. about $1.00 cheaper per gallon then it was a the peak of the last heating season. Since installing the pellet heater only my stove and propane or I may turn on the furnace if we get a cold snap the pellet stove can't cope with. I haven't filled my 500 gallon propane tank in 4.5 years or so and still have 66% left

I am hoping they will run natural gas out this way soon so I can get rid of the tank etc.

Thanks for the link. Where propane came from exactly has always been a bit fuzzy for me. Now I know. Learn something everyday.
Dave.

[westcliffe01]

Eddie, when we are no longer importing oil from Saudi Arabia then the energy crisis is over or it is simply all used up. You have China and India, both with populations much larger than the US who would eagerly like to have our lifestyles, competing for the same resources. Our energy problems are far from over, and the global population keeps rising on the back of fossil fuels which are not infinite.

Originally Posted by EddieWalker

Energy crisis is postponed as new gas rescues the world - Telegraph I've always said and feel that there is no energy crisis and that we have plenty of fuel. Every year, more and more oil is found then ever thought possible.

Eddie

[Lloyd_E]

This story goes deeper...

Google Lindsey Williams.

If it is not true... sure is interesting listening, reading and theory for a cold winter's night
beside the wood stove.





Alaska Gull Island Oil Fields Could Power U.S. for 200 Years

By Mark Anderson

Crude oil is the real currency of the world, said Lindsey Williams at a gathering of the Midwest Concerned Citizens group in Kansas City on July 22. But Americans will never hear about huge oil and gas reserves in the United States, which, if ever tapped, would bring today- fuel prices at least as low as $1.50 per gallon and make America more energy independent.

As a Baptist missionary in the 1970s, Williams said he rubbed elbows with members of the world power elite boasted of detailed 30-year and 50-year plans to control the flow of oil and information.

A huge quantity of crude oil and natural gas exists under Gull Island, located in the waters of Prudhoe Bay in Alaska, says Williams. He cited key British Petroleum memoranda and related the statements of upper echelon oil officials who told him that Gull Island would be kept under wraps, limiting domestic supplies so Americans would someday see prices hit up to $10 a gallon at the pump.

Every issue in the world today relates to crude oil, said Williams. The U.S. occupation of Iraq and the saber rattling about attacking Iran fit into the crude oil matrix.

Iran is being targeted because it is one of several countries that want to use their own currencies for oil sales, rather than using the U.S. dollar. Williams told AFP that any country that doesn't want to play ball with the U.S. government and the financial and oil interests is, in essence, put on a hit list.

The United States, he said, learned that Iran intended to form its own bourse and not use the dollar for oil sales. Therefore, the notion that Iran is a menacing most-nuclear country was trumped up, presented as fact via the corporate media and Iran is now in the crosshairs.

Other nations wanting more independence from U.S. meddling include Norway, Venezuela, Nigeria, Bolivia, Sweden and Russia.

The 30-year plan, which was first proposed three decades ago and is nearing fruition, included smug assurances from oil officials that the United States will triple its crude-oil usage and alternative fuels will not be allowed to gain enough ground to make a difference. They also noted that all foreign oil production will be scaled back to the United States and that Americans soon will pay $4 to $5 a gallon at the pump and could pay as much as $7 to $10 down the road.

In the early 1960s crude oil was selected as a tool of world control, Williams said, adding, that we pay at the gas pump is a form of taxation. The American consumers dependence on crude oil thus far has enabled people from foreign oil-producing nations to buy T-bills (U.S. treasury notes) in order to support the U.S. national debt and continued deficit spending. The need to support that debt puts the U.S. government in a bind, forcing Americans to remain dependent on foreign oil.

Williams, as a chaplain in 1970 when the trans-Alaskan oil pipeline was finished, ministered among the pipeline workers. However, as time passed he made a favorable impression with the top brass and was asked to improve worker-company relations. Next thing he knew, he said he was sitting at meetings of the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund and various meetings of oil executives over a three-year period.

He told AFP that the IMF-World Bank acts as a middleman between oil producing nations and refineries. In so doing, they set oil prices, he said.

The big event in that three-year period was in 1977 when an Atlantic Richfield oil executive told him, we have just drilled into the largest pool of oil in North America and in the world!

That pool was Gull Island. It was said that there was enough natural gas to supply America for 200 years. But to this day, not one drop of that oil has been released to American refineries, Williams said.

Williams said the executive had warned him that the Gull Island find was highly classified. Do not repeat any of this, he was told. Obviously, that warning did not stop him.
__________________

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

last year our LP prepay was $2.39/gallon.
this year it's $1.30. buy it now is $1.25.

[dave1949]

Like Eddie, I have always thought knowledge and technology advancements would make more oil available. That's really great news.

And I agree with Westcliffe that the world will just keep soaking up whatever is produced at bearable prices.

The Lindsay Williams thing sounds pretty far-fetched. It's like grand government or corporate conspiracies - when did the US Govt. or a company ever demonstrate it could pull off the secrecy and manipulations required to make some of these conspiracy theories a reality? Never. They may hide something for 5-10 years, but that's about it.

Another oddity is how people illogically pick and choose what they believe. An example is global warming and its root causes. Kids grow up and go to college, some are engineers, some are biologists. Some design tractors, some find oil, some find new life in the oddest places, and some find problems in the environment. They all went to similar schools, came from average families, our taxes helped all of them get a college education.

But yet, based upon personal bias some choose to reject any facts about global warming. I will never understand it, it just isn't logical.

Dave.