Car designer should ahave to Intern in real shops, yearly

[RobertN]

Trying to replace the alternator belt on my '03 PT Cruiser. Neat little car. Unless, you have to work on the motor... I am just trying to replace the alternator belt. PS/AC belt is easy. The alternator, I am looking at Chilton manual, online, no good pictures. Appears have to loosen a locknut underneath the car. Then loosen a locknut from above, and adjust the adjuster to loosen the belt.

I know it is a small car, and everything has to be packed in there, but...

I soooooooooo agree with my Dad; he was a partsman on the mechanics counter at a Big-3 dealership for 40+ years. One of things he has said for years, is the designers should have to come to the shops, and work on the stuff they design.

I work in high-tech, computer chips. Every year, we get interns from the colleges for the summer. They learn real world stuff, and can apply the stuff they learned at school the last semester or two.

Car designers should have to do the same thing. Even after school... A yearly rotation for a couple week(or more) to work on the stuff they designed, in the real world.

Maybe then they would make so you can work on this stuff.

I know they would still be limited by space and stuff, but I bet they would make it more maintainable...

 

[Thomas]

Also,seems one has to keep up grading there tools to get in those hard to reach places.

 

[woodchuckie]

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[BobRip]

I have a 2008 Jeep Liberty for the wife. If you get in the right position, you can just see a tiny part of the oil filter. A totally braille job!

Don't you know that designers have to sign a disclaimer sheet that says:
1. I will make it new.
2. I will make it to different standards.
3. I will not put that extra penny of value in it.
4. I will never, ever use it.

I tend to blame this on management. They put too much value on short term apeal and not life of product. Their motto "Save a penny on cost even if it takes a dollar's worth of value out".

 

[RobertN]

That is about what the Chiltons says. The Chiltons even shows a similar diagram.

I can get a wrench on the upper lock nut, but I can not turn the wrench. There is no room to get my hand in there to get any leverage. There is no room to get a longer wrench in; forget about getting a longer handled socket/ratchet in there.

I understand, that there are space limits. But, common things, like filters/belts/plugs/wires should be easy to change. This thing would have to be towed to a shop if either of the belts broke on the road...

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[RobertN]

Had to do that too, to get to the transmission fill plug...

I wouldn't mind new tools, if I knew BEFORE I drained the tranny It is a good thing NAPA and Kragen/O'Riely are within 10 minutes distance, and dealer parts is 5 minutes from work...

Also,seems one has to keep up grading there tools to get in those hard to reach places.

 

[RobertN]

FWIW, the car has been great otherwise... I wish they did not drop the line; should have offered it in a 50+mpg turbo diesel...

 

[Jstpssng]

Engineer's purgatory = working on the s*** they design in this life. I try to convince myself of that every time I rip my knuckles open working in the cold, on what should be a simple job. However Chilton's and Haynes manuals aren't worth the paper they're printed on. If you plan to keep this vehicle a while the service maanual is worth it's weight in gold.

 

[bp fick]

We've said all this for most of my life, going on 60 years.

Not to excuse the designer, but it's important to understand there isn't a designer as we might think of it. There are hundreds of layers of committees and teams, made up of thousands of people, all of whom push for their "stuff". The body people, the engine people, the bean counters all fighting one another, in reality. Thousands of suppliers and component makers. Compromises abound. Make it work, make it fit, etc. Then comes the order to lower the hood an inch to increase coefficient slipperiness in the wind tunnel. EPA issues. Crash standards. Mileage issues. The list goes on and on and it never gets any easier.

Guys, I gotta tell you. It's a almost a miracle the thing comes together at all.
So, in the end, who you gonna invite to come work on "their" product? How the things get wrenched is pretty darn low down the totem pole of corporate concerns during the process.

Yes, I live in Michigan, if you couldn't tell.

 

[om21braz]

I'll second RobertN - my dad came from the mechanic's background and finished as a parts manager. Unfortunately, bean counters are more plentiful and their wants seem to ***** those of the engineers nowadays. Plus, I'd venture to say some of the engineers are not of the mister-fix-it background. The man having to turn wrenches on these vehicles is dead last on the list of who to enlist for design recommendations - that much is obvious. Also as a mechanic-friend of mine says "Why do I have a doctor bring his 50k auto in for repair and even begin to ask why I charge $55 hr. when I probably have as much schooling as he does when spanned over my entire career?" Robert, I'm sure the PT is'nt an easy to work on vehicle, but if you'll look into some relatively minor repairs to a Cadillac with the Northstar - you'll feel much better.