Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario

   / Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario
  • Thread Starter
#81  
If you disagree with any of my posts, take a look at the original posters hypothetical and then in that light, not some personally reworked variation, make your case. I'm willing to be persuaded by a logical argument based on realistic and believable premises (unlike the hypothetical itself.) Simply asserting the the military will be well behaved, great artists will arise out of the minor difficulties, and the indomitable spirit of the American people (hum "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" quietly and respectfully in the background during this part) will triumph over all adversity and return to a simpler time when we could all risk polio, unsafe patent medications, embalmed beef, dawn to dusk labor etc. you know, the good old days!

Ok, lets use some real scenarios of human survival without the aid of modern technology during extreme conditions, ones that actually happened. One is before modern technology came to pass and one is after modern technology came to pass. Granted, the survivors ultimately had to resort to eating each other to survive, but they survived.

Donner Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1972 Andes flight disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
   / Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario #82  
Ok, lets use some real scenarios of human survival without the aid of modern technology during extreme conditions, ones that actually happened. One is before modern technology came to pass and one is after modern technology came to pass. Granted, the survivors ultimately had to resort to eating each other to survive, but they survived.

Donner Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1972 Andes flight disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are you suggesting that the key to survival after some idiot pushes the button is cannibalism? You think this is sustainable and for how long? The sports team and the Donner party were a small blip of short duration, hardly scalable to the proportions needed. Nevertheless, it might serve as a stopgap measure while getting used to the idea of death by starvation..

Pat
 
   / Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario #83  
Granted, the survivors ultimately had to resort to eating each other to survive, but they survived.
Donner Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ouch! Donner, party of eight.....wait, seven.....no, six.....:laughing:
Anybody got some finger-food? At their cocktail party, I hear they served lady fingers…
You wanna give me a hand for that or not?
I heard they played hockey. There was a face off, and then ..............there was some guy outside the arena, scalping tickets.

Those Donner folks may have been only rough pioneers, but you must admit they had great taste. :licking:

Sorry, best I can do on short notice. Still I do the best I can to cook something up.:duh:
 
   / Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario
  • Thread Starter
#84  
Are you suggesting that the key to survival after some idiot pushes the button is cannibalism? You think this is sustainable and for how long. The sports team and the Donner party were a small blip of short duration, hardly scalable to the proportions needed. Nevertheless, it might serve as a stopgap measure.

No, I wasn't suggesting that cannibalism was the answer, but it was the most extreme example I could think of. Water is nearly everywhere and there are many things which are edible, including us. Most people couldn't stomach the thought of eating bugs, spiders, snakes, worms, grass, or even each other, but if they were starving and had no other choice they might just change their minds. Besides, we're talking about survival here.

As for sustainability, one could survive a lifetime if needed. And if you doubt what I'm saying, just look up how some people survive in Africa or the Amazon rainforests.
 
   / Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario #85  
Interested in Soylent Green? It's improved from Soylent Yellow! We get it Pat, anyone who considers functioning without the benefits of the modern age is a backwater buffoon and should be exterminated by your allegations they are comparable to an IdaAmin or ******.

But you also forget the Washington's who replaced George the III, the lone chinaman in Tiannemen Square, the failure of von Stauffenburg, and more. Human success and goodness trumps evil - but it can take time.
However I can point to many abuses and dysfunctionalities championed by governments - including New Orleans, Detroit, War between the States, Wilson's 14 points of light that led to WW2, the Holocause, the Gulags, the Great Society, Roosevelt's New Deal, etc.

Ok - we know you can't survive without the Federal Govt.

You'll have to break it down for me, I don't understand your post.

I thought the two choices were Soylent Red (vegetable matter) and Soylent Green (processed cadavers) Your examples are well chosen to represent the best of the human spirit and I certainly admire those folks. Excellent examples of the stuff that heroes are made of. I just don't see how standing in front of a tank or refusing to be king and settling for president will feed the masses after some megalomaniac pushes the button.

Oh, and I don't get the Fed Gov comment either. I'm a big fan of the smaller the Gov the better. Like Albert Einstein said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible but no simpler." He was not being political but the quote expresses my views on Government. For me the least Government that works is the right size.

Pat
 
   / Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario #86  
As for sustainability, one could survive a lifetime if needed. And if you doubt what I'm saying, just look up how some people survive in Africa or the Amazon rainforests.

How many people in the US can do or learn to do before starving what the folks you mention can do and we don't have the climate or resources of the Amazon. I'm not too worried about the folks in the Amazon, I don't have a dog in that fight.

What about the temperate zone populations which are concentrated in large cities and urban areas? Cannibalism is not really sustainable for them. You might get two maybe three meals out of an adult or larger child before the rest spoils.

I fully agree that some of the third world will hardly notice the button was pushed and a lot of the rest of it would only be inconvenienced, not put into a condition of extremis. That is not of concern to me and likely not a big issue with the OP as he purposely listed technologies to be lost at the push of a button and none were primitive technologies like say making fire from friction. I think advanced technological societies were his area of interest but if that is not so he can step up and correct my misunderstanding as I am not in his confidence.

Pat
 
   / Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario #87  
You'll have to break it down for me, I don't understand your post.

I thought the two choices were Soylent Red (vegetable matter) and Soylent Green (processed cadavers) Your examples are well chosen to represent the best of the human spirit and I certainly admire those folks. Excellent examples of the stuff that heroes are made of. I just don't see how standing in front of a tank or refusing to be king and settling for president will feed the masses after some megalomaniac pushes the button.

Oh, and I don't get the Fed Gov comment either. I'm a big fan of the smaller the Gov the better. Like Albert Einstein said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible but no simpler." He was not being political but the quote expresses my views on Government. For me the least Government that works is the right size.

Pat

My point was soley about the human spirit. I have seen great tragedy, but also great success - and it gives me some solace (whenever I dread where our govt is headed).
Your comments were about how would the government function in feeding the masses. In one of my previous posts I commented - that is precisely the issue - those dependents will be the threat. 100 years ago, before tech, you could be born, live, marry, and die and except for filing a deed - never deal with the govt. How small a govt is too small? By some that is the definition of Anarchy - but per Merriam, it is also the definition of Utopia.

Vi veri universum vivus vici
 
   / Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario
  • Thread Starter
#88  
How many people in the US can do or learn to do before starving what the folks you mention can do and we don't have the climate or resources of the Amazon. I'm not too worried about the folks in the Amazon, I don't have a dog in that fight.

What about the temperate zone populations which are concentrated in large cities and urban areas? Cannibalism is not really sustainable for them. You might get two maybe three meals out of an adult or larger child before the rest spoils.

I fully agree that some of the third world will hardly notice the button was pushed and a lot of the rest of it would only be inconvenienced, not put into a condition of extremis. That is not of concern to me and likely not a big issue with the OP as he purposely listed technologies to be lost at the push of a button and none were primitive technologies like say making fire from friction. I think advanced technological societies were his area of interest but if that is not so he can step up and correct my misunderstanding as I am not in his confidence.

You do realize that I am the OP don't you?

You seem to have been making baseless assumptions. Not once did I ever claim that everyone in technologically advanced regions would survive such an event or that people would only survive by way of cannibalism. Cities would likely be toast and rural areas wouldn't fair much better. However, many more people would be capable of surviving than you might think. At first, survival would be difficult, where some people may have to take extreme measures to survive, but in the long run it's entirely possible that society would re-emerge better and stronger than it is today. It might take hundreds or even thousands of years, but it could happen.

Obviously it would be a very different world than the one we are used to living in, but that's a given. The whole point, which you have been helping to make, is that we as a species are over dependent on technology.
 
   / Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario
  • Thread Starter
#89  
Ouch! Donner, party of eight.....wait, seven.....no, six.....:laughing:
Anybody got some finger-food? At their cocktail party, I hear they served lady fingers…
You wanna give me a hand for that or not?
I heard they played hockey. There was a face off, and then ..............there was some guy outside the arena, scalping tickets.

Those Donner folks may have been only rough pioneers, but you must admit they had great taste. :licking:

Sorry, best I can do on short notice. Still I do the best I can to cook something up.:duh:

OMG, that's hilarious! :laughing:
 
   / Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario #90  
I think creekbend is probably figuring at this point for our country to do away with all tech...we would revert back to the stone age....I mean what tech. do you want to eliminate...cell phones, computers, electricity...?? think about each one of these and how they are used to make our lives more livable...Are there abuses..? Yes...all the texting , video games, cell phone calls, gimmics etc...Would we have been better off staying with the electric typewriters, calculators and go no further....maybe so...but it looks like it is too late now...we are too dependent on the tech for our way of life....think of all the records on computers..etc. I for one agree with Creekbend....I don't want to give up modern conveniences anytime soon and we can't pick and choose which parts of the internet are used or how cell phones are used or the kinds of Movies or videos on tv or games...It is what it is and humanity has brought it where it is...good or bad...I use the good and ignore the bad as best I can...

I think that is what creekbend was getting at...maybe I'm wrong though...
Dear Sir: Your are fairly accurate in your assumption. BTW, I wasn't offended by the OP's remarks. I don't have "Onion Skin". The somewhat analogy that I made is regards to a "Checker" player and a "Chess" player refers that when playing CHECKERS, sometimes one opponent changes the game rules midstream when it best suits their position. This can't be done when playing CHESS. In the OP's fourth post he clearly stated, "Would I push the button? Maybe". It is apparent that the OP has changed his direction several times in this thread. I regard this member as a decent individual, but as the old saying goes, "You can't have your cake and eat it too". He derives many things from today's Modern Technology, but on the other hand, he regards condemning tens of millions of people to certain doom, starvation and death by "Pushing the Button" as acceptable. Here's a short narrative of my learning experience. My Father was in the U.S. Army during WWII. He fought campaigns to liberate Europe including Germany and served in Germany for several years during the post War years. He met my Mother in Frankfurt, and married her. They were married three times to make it legal- Germany, Austria and New York City. I was born in Salzburg, Austria. During my entire lifetime, I never saw my Mother eat tomatoes, although she prepared them for us. I once asked my Father for the reason. My Father informed me that for two summers during the ravages of WAR, the main food that my Mother lived on was TOMATOES and GRASS. My Mother was an orphan in Austria and Germany, and she never talked to us Children about her experiences. She only talked at times to my Father-her Husband. I could never, ever agree with anybody that would even mention the possibility of even thinking about PUSHING the button. No matter how remote the possibility. This position is not to be defended in any way. Not only my thoughts, but a civilized VIEWPOINT. Thanks for listening.
 
 
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