Grid-tied solar

   / Grid-tied solar
  • Thread Starter
#221  
That is an absolute myth and the so called "subsidies" are business expense deductions that every other business gets in this country. Gas, oil, nuclear and coal industries have paid their way from the beginning and in fact most have a smaller profit margin than any other business group. The record millions in profits is based purely on the huge volume they do. I thank God these companies keep exploring and providing us with the energy we need.

I am sort of ambivalent about nuclear energy. It has always cost more than predicted and there are certainly health issues related to uranium mining that are probably avoidable but at a higher cost. Any nuclear plant disaster is a real disaster.

The fossil fuel industries and its customers have never paid their full fare, and when they even come close, it is because they are forced to by citizen pressure. It just isn't possible to extract, transport and refine or process those fuels without imposing an environmental cost.

It is a fantasy to pretend we can utterly destroy 100's of square miles of the boreal forest in Alberta, Canada to extract tar sands without paying an environmental price, for example. The same is true of mountain top removal or entering wilderness habitat for drilling. Our mere presence, whether spills occur or not, in wilderness areas is destructive. There are no oil rigs, pipelines, trucks and planes in true wilderness.

There is a high environmental and human health cost when fossil fuels are utilized (burned). The cost of utilization can be mitigated to a degree, but doing so makes them much more expensive; their clean-use and carbon mitigated costs approach or exceed alternative energy sources.

We need fossil fuels, but we also need to constrain their uses to areas where no reasonable alternatives exist. Put another way, why would we degrade or destroy the environment and impair our own health when that isn't necessary?

Why do people have the attitude that "If solar isn't a great money making investment for me, I won't do it?" I think it is because people just do not see the environment in a global, long-term perspective. If my backyard looks pretty much like it did five years ago, nothing bad is happening anywhere--is false.

I don't want this thread to turn into another global warming echo chamber or a debate about the environment. I hope if you are here, it is because you have an interest in, experience, or information to share about alternative energy, energy use strategies and conservation.
 
   / Grid-tied solar
  • Thread Starter
#222  
I just checked ours. This is from sunny N. Calif, about an hour east of Sacramento in the foothills. Today was sunny and clear; we generated 29.82kWh. 7/27-8/25 we generated 916kWh from our 5kW system.
View attachment 278096

That's pretty good. I have had several 20 kw days recently. As the sun angle declines, I am getting higher point-in-time readings. I have seen it hit 3400 watts around mid-day. We had 3-4 days of very overcast rainy weather before this clear spell, had a couple 2-3 kw days in that stretch.

My usage over the past 12 months with the propane fired water heater was 3,992 kWh, 333 kWh/month average. I have no idea yet how much the electric water heater will add over a year's time, I thought it could as much as double our usage based on estimates. I need to accumulate several complete months with the net meters and system output to find my net monthly usage. I think it roughly would be: (In from utility + system output - Out to utility)

Our 4.32 kWh system is rated by the PVwatts calculator at 4,447 kWh annually.
 
   / Grid-tied solar
  • Thread Starter
#223  
Hello from down under!
Hey guys you have forgotten the golden rule of utility companies in your sums and payback time. Prices are may be expected to increase for whatever weasel worded reason. Usually "equipment upgrading" huh!
Here in NZ we annually get a price rise of 10% a year. We have a varied pricing structure ranging from NZ 23.51c/unit to NZ25.48c/unit.
My next house due soon? I will have a solar system included with the build. Currently here depending on plumbing charges for any changes going solar cost around NZ$13,000.
Go for it.

$1 US = NZ $1.2329
That is expensive power. Our electric supply rates are actually falling a bit in some areas. The natural gas supply is way above domestic demand currently, natural gas is selling very cheap. Won't last, but we can enjoy it while it does.

Good luck with your upcoming house. If you have questions, we are good at helping people spend their money here at TBN :D
 
   / Grid-tied solar #224  
I just checked ours. This is from sunny N. Calif, about an hour east of Sacramento in the foothills. Today was sunny and clear; we generated 29.82kWh. 7/27-8/25 we generated 916kWh from our 5kW system.
View attachment 278096

62KWh here yesterday, but there was a slight haze in the air.... 1750 for the month.
 
   / Grid-tied solar #225  
That is an absolute myth and the so called "subsidies" are business expense deductions that every other business gets in this country. Gas, oil, nuclear and coal industries have paid their way from the beginning and in fact most have a smaller profit margin than any other business group. The record millions in profits is based purely on the huge volume they do. I thank God these companies keep exploring and providing us with the energy we need.


I'll have to remember that when I pay my 'debt retirement fee' to Ontario Hydro every month for the next 20 years.
 
   / Grid-tied solar #226  
I am sort of ambivalent about nuclear energy. It has always cost more than predicted and there are certainly health issues related to uranium mining that are probably avoidable but at a higher cost. Any nuclear plant disaster is a real disaster.............................

It is worse than that. No insurance company will insure against a nuclear accident, thus Uncle Sam has to provide that insurance for free. Another imaginary subsidy.
 
   / Grid-tied solar #227  
Travelover said:
It is worse than that. No insurance company will insure against a nuclear accident, thus Uncle Sam has to provide that insurance for free. Another imaginary subsidy.

Yes... But with leaders (political party irrelevant...even whatever country is irrelevant, IMO) who are bad at math, and psuedo monopoly money, they don't see any trouble with subsidies of almost any kind...

Plus, monopoly money at 0% interest is even more appealing to the mathematically deficient.

My post relates to solar, in that we are shedding light on the subject... :)
 
   / Grid-tied solar
  • Thread Starter
#228  
Yes... But with leaders (political party irrelevant...even whatever country is irrelevant, IMO) who are bad at math, and psuedo monopoly money, they don't see any trouble with subsidies of almost any kind...

Plus, monopoly money at 0% interest is even more appealing to the mathematically deficient.

My post relates to solar, in that we are shedding light on the subject... :)

Don't you have something better to do ? :cool2: What's going on with that?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/254468-best-material-parking-car-tractor-4.html
 
   / Grid-tied solar #229  
Dave, you know what I like? I like the computer controlled mirror grids that track the sun and focus the light on a boiler. The boiler drives a steam turbine which drives a genny. That concept can take advantage of desert wastelands, and can have a decent payback.
 
   / Grid-tied solar #230  
dave1949 said:
Don't you have something better to do ? :cool2: What's going on with that?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/254468-best-material-parking-car-tractor-4.html

Yeah, like everyone, there is a ton of life happening...so that has to fit in to the myriad of other projects. May get done this fall... May wait til spring. Will update as happens. Actually still having trouble with the complete finished vision of the project. I'm afraid of it not enhancing the property. A gravel driveway can be done for a multi-million dollar estate, beautifully, or it can look like a cheap, messy, ignorant mistake. I don't think I'm ready, yet... so still trying to figure it out.

Talking with better half about storyland trip with kiddos...

One day at a time.

Does storyland take monopoly money?

:)
 
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