Grid-tied solar

[KiwiBro]

Grid Tied power and all power is getting a second look in my region.

All of the daily newspapers and local new ran a story that the entire way Electricity is billed in California is about to change...

The tiered price structure to encourage conservation where those at the top pay more than double those at the bottom is driving away the best customers... just as one would expect when paying 32 cents a kWh...

The solution is seen as increasing a minimum charge for all accounts and and eliminating the top and bottom tier to retain larger customers and make small end users pay more...

Careful what you ask for...

An issue here too. Fixed line charges have been ramping up. The claim is there are on average, fewer kWh sold per connection to maintain the network let alone cover growing it, so the fixed portion of the bill increases. Of note here is there hasn't ever been a mandated feed-in/buyback tariff/rate and these vary considerably between retailers and also with the same retailer over time. There is no way an industry so reliant on retailing electricity is going to help, of its own accord, customers to justify an alternative, distributed generation option, unless either compelled to by law or it siphons all the money for network maintenance out as profits (of issue lately here as 49% of the generators have recently been privatised) and moves itself to pushing distributed options to offset network maintenance its PR teams will by then be calling 'expensive network upgrades we could avoid'.

 

[Loren49]

Discussing how people use their grid tied solar, charging cars for example, is fair game, and was brought up by someone else. That brings up the question of how they pay their fair share of road taxes, since they don't use gas or diesel, and hence don't pay road taxes, but use the road that gas and diesel sales taxes pay for. I only bring up the whining of electric car use to show its not really an issue as their numbers are dropping. Some people just have to have the dots connected for them. HS

The dot comment is condescending and does nothing for your cause.

Of course some folks are going to less fuel efficient vehicles. This graph makes it clear. Historical Gas Price Chart

Another indication of a change in demand:
Gas prices dent demand for fuel-efficient cars

Low gas prices dent demand for fuel-efficient cars
Paul A. Eisenstein | @DetroitBureau
Friday, 14 Nov 2014 | 1:43 PM ET

Its not only hybrid and electric, its smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. If gas was at $5 to $6 the demand would be different.

There are other views:
Electric Vehicle Forecasts, Trends and Opportunities 2015-2025: IDTechEx
FINAL UPDATE: Plug-In Electric Car Sales Continue Rise In 2014, To 118,500
https://transportevolved.com/2014/04/16/number-electric-cars-world-doubled-past-year-say-academics/

Relatively few people with grid tied solar, also own and charge electric cars. (I stand corrected if you find statistics that prove my hunch wrong)


You cherry picked your article. Some people may be buying less efficient vehicles but it has more to do with cheaper gas than a problem with electric cars.

This graph indicates that electric and plug in hybrids sale increased each month in 2014.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ele...wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FElectric_car;1529;1095

Compare 2014 to 2015 so far....they are selling.
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

Now the only question is whether you actually want to see the facts.

Loren

 

[houstonscott]

The dot comment is condescending and does nothing for your cause. Of course some folks are going to less fuel efficient vehicles. This graph makes it clear. Historical Gas Price Chart Another indication of a change in demand: Gas prices dent demand for fuel-efficient cars Low gas prices dent demand for fuel-efficient cars Paul A. Eisenstein | @DetroitBureau Friday, 14 Nov 2014 | 1:43 PM ET Its not only hybrid and electric, its smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. If gas was at $5 to $6 the demand would be different. There are other views: Electric Vehicle Forecasts, Trends and Opportunities 2015-2025: IDTechEx FINAL UPDATE: Plug-In Electric Car Sales Continue Rise In 2014, To 118,500 https://transportevolved.com/2014/04/16/number-electric-cars-world-doubled-past-year-say-academics/ Relatively few people with grid tied solar, also own and charge electric cars. (I stand corrected if you find statistics that prove my hunch wrong) You cherry picked your article. Some people may be buying less efficient vehicles but it has more to do with cheaper gas than a problem with electric cars. This graph indicates that electric and plug in hybrids sale increased each month in 2014. https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+car+sales+2014&espv=2&biw=1093&bih=534&tbm=isch&imgil=U8Jx-5tPXHjkDM%253A%253Bkv9o-oQPeFkHUM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FElectric_car&source=iu&pf=m&fir=U8Jx-5tPXHjkDM%253A%252Ckv9o-oQPeFkHUM%252C_&usg=__V63nkNshj52DD6-EF76ahddp7a8%3D&ved=0CFYQyjc&ei=XSc4VYb4LIeQyQTsmoDoCA#imgrc=U8Jx-5tPXHjkDM%253A%3Bkv9o-oQPeFkHUM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252Ff%252Ff6%252FUS_PEV_Sales_2010_2013.png%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FElectric_car%3B1529%3B1095 Compare 2014 to 2015 so far....they are selling. http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ Now the only question is whether you actually want to see the facts. Loren

I don't have a cause. I do understand the EV types do have a cause, and is the main reason for owning one. Not only that they would like to control through government what I drive. That's the rub. The article I posted show 1 in 5 of EV buyers don't buy an EV again, they buy a SUV. HS

 

[TomSeller]

I don't have a cause. I do understand the EV types do have a cause, and is the main reason for owning one. HS

I would agree that you don't have a cause supported by facts

 

[Loren49]

I don't have a cause. I do understand the EV types do have a cause, and is the main reason for owning one. Not only that they would like to control through government what I drive. That's the rub. The article I posted show 1 in 5 of EV buyers don't buy an EV again, they buy a SUV. HS

80% satisfaction for something quite radical (different) isn't too bad. Especially with relatively low fuel costs. Its the old "cup is half full or half empty" but in this case "4/5 full or 1/5 empty."

This thread doesn't benefit from the old "it will never work" attitude. It serves no good purpose.

Concerning vehicles that use little or no gasoline, collection of a fee so that users also pay for road infrastructure seems only fair. Bridges are very costly. The discussion of this should be in a separate thread.

So what do you think of grid-tied solar?

Loren

 

[houstonscott]

80% satisfaction for something quite radical (different) isn't too bad. Especially with relatively low fuel costs. Its the old "cup is half full or half empty" but in this case "4/5 full or 1/5 empty." This thread doesn't benefit from the old "it will never work" attitude. It serves no good purpose. Concerning vehicles that use little or no gasoline, collection of a fee so that users also pay for road infrastructure seems only fair. Bridges are very costly. The discussion of this should be in a separate thread. So what do you think of grid-tied solar? Loren

Well, if losing 20% of your supports each year and trending higher is good news, that's an opinion. Radical?, EV's were on the road at the beginning of the last century. Haven't seen one post about about it won't work attitude, where did you find that? However the "look at me I'm driving a EV, I'm smarter than you, I care, I'm saving the world, I'm making a difference" are prevalent and stupid. Nothing wrong with grid tied solar, we must all be vigilant to keep government out of our grid tied systems or they will find a way to tax you and regulate it and destroy the movement and freedom we have today to make our own choices. Example; City requiring an installed system to report how much power they generate and use, and how they use it. HS

 

[Redneck in training]

Well, if losing 20% of your supports each year and trending higher is good news, that's an opinion. Radical?, EV's were on the road at the beginning of the last century. Haven't seen one post about about it won't work attitude, where did you find that? Nothing wrong with grid tied solar, we must all be vigilant to keep government out of our grid tied systems or they will find a way to tax you and regulate it and destroy the movement and freedom we have today to make our own choices. Example; City requiring an installed system to report how much power they generate and use, and how they use it. HS

It is not the government but the utilities that would like to limit solar. Utilities are lobbying the government to get involved. Utilities would prefer building large power plant (if possible financed by public money) then increase the rates to pay for it. Solar is possible the largest danger for them because as people install solar utility loses revenue but their expenses remain the same. In order to cope they are forced to increase rates which in turn will speed up adoption of solar. In example in Germany utilities lost several billion euro per year in profit due to adoption of PV. That means that Germany users of electric energy paid several billon less for energy. Adoption of PV is inevitable and the utilities will be forced to rethink their business model in the future.

 

[houstonscott]

It is not the government but the utilities that would like to limit solar. Utilities are lobbying the government to get involved. Utilities would prefer building large power plant (if possible financed by public money) then increase the rates to pay for it. Solar is possible the largest danger for them because as people install solar utility loses revenue but their expenses remain the same. In order to cope they are forced to increase rates which in turn will speed up adoption of solar. In example in Germany utilities lost several billion euro per year in profit due to adoption of PV. That means that Germany users of electric energy paid several billon less for energy. Adoption of PV is inevitable and the utilities will be forced to rethink their business model in the future.

Right now it's PV that has lobbied government to finance with public money, PV projects and purchase/install tax credits. If solar is going to make it it should make it without government intervention. Be aware utilities are people, they have a voice. HS

 

[buickanddeere]

It is not the government but the utilities that would like to limit solar. Utilities are lobbying the government to get involved. Utilities would prefer building large power plant (if possible financed by public money) then increase the rates to pay for it. Solar is possible the largest danger for them because as people install solar utility loses revenue but their expenses remain the same. In order to cope they are forced to increase rates which in turn will speed up adoption of solar. In example in Germany utilities lost several billion euro per year in profit due to adoption of PV. That means that Germany users of electric energy paid several billon less for energy. Adoption of PV is inevitable and the utilities will be forced to rethink their business model in the future.

Don't know where your lower cost figures are from? The German , Danish, Spanish , Dutch and Ontarians have all had the retail electrical prices increase since the adoption of "green power".

 

[Redneck in training]

Don't know where your lower cost figures are from? The German , Danish, Spanish , Dutch and Ontarians have all had the retail electrical prices increase since the adoption of "green power".

New large power plant cost in general several billion USD followed by request for rate increase. It is true that consumer rates increased but at lower pace than without PV (specifically). Large scale wind produces energy at cost close to nuclear or gas burning power plant. Wind is almost exclusively owned by utilities or generators while PV is to large degree owned by the end users. Wind probably increases the rates (as any newly constructed power source) while PV tends to work against rate increase.

In example electric rates in Iowa increased in average at rate about 2%/year. Since the rate didn't increase for several years we can expect large jump in near future. In fact Mid American Energy serving IA applied for rate increase last year and it was approved. The rates went up by 145 million for 640 000 customers.