Jesse masterson
Platinum Member
I believe a 308 was developed from research it has no parent cartridge as the 308 is parent to 243 , 7 mm08, 260,
Long range shooting.....what do I need?
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RobertN
Super Member
It was developed from 300 Savage. There are numerous references to it.
Further development of the case has yielded little extra performance. It has though, as you mention, been parent to a number of other fine cartridges.
"In 1944 Springfield Armory was instructed to develop the new weapon and Frankford Arsenal to develop the cartridge. Guided by general cartridge dimensions and desired ballistics established by the Chief of Ordnance, Frankford Arsenal purchased a supply of commercial .300 Savage brass from both Winchester and Remington and assembled them into test cartridges to determine pressures, velocities, and appropriate powders and primers. Once it was concluded that the project was feasible the Arsenal produced 10,000 prototype cases for further development and designated the cartridge the T65. Over the course of the next five years the T65 went through several design changes including neck length, shoulder angle, and case length. The final case design was approved in 1949 and designated the FAT 1E3 but tests continued until August 1954 when the assembled cartridge was standardized as the 7 .62 x 5lmm NATO. It would be another three years before the rifle, the M14, was perfected and adopted."
"With the organization of NATO following World War II, the short cartridge requirement was revived with the idea of equipping all NATO forces with a single rifle and cartridge. Post war ammunition research lasted nine years and experiments ranged from a cartridge closely resembling the 300 Savage to the T-65 round. The main difference between the 300 Savage and the T-65 was the 3/16" longer neck of the latter. Standard service loadings of the T-65 and the 30-’06 provided about equal performance. Ordnance adopted the T-65 in 1954, although M-14 rifles chambered for it were not available until 1957. The 308 has also been adopted by more than two dozen other nations, but in different rifles."
Further development of the case has yielded little extra performance. It has though, as you mention, been parent to a number of other fine cartridges.
"In 1944 Springfield Armory was instructed to develop the new weapon and Frankford Arsenal to develop the cartridge. Guided by general cartridge dimensions and desired ballistics established by the Chief of Ordnance, Frankford Arsenal purchased a supply of commercial .300 Savage brass from both Winchester and Remington and assembled them into test cartridges to determine pressures, velocities, and appropriate powders and primers. Once it was concluded that the project was feasible the Arsenal produced 10,000 prototype cases for further development and designated the cartridge the T65. Over the course of the next five years the T65 went through several design changes including neck length, shoulder angle, and case length. The final case design was approved in 1949 and designated the FAT 1E3 but tests continued until August 1954 when the assembled cartridge was standardized as the 7 .62 x 5lmm NATO. It would be another three years before the rifle, the M14, was perfected and adopted."
"With the organization of NATO following World War II, the short cartridge requirement was revived with the idea of equipping all NATO forces with a single rifle and cartridge. Post war ammunition research lasted nine years and experiments ranged from a cartridge closely resembling the 300 Savage to the T-65 round. The main difference between the 300 Savage and the T-65 was the 3/16" longer neck of the latter. Standard service loadings of the T-65 and the 30-’06 provided about equal performance. Ordnance adopted the T-65 in 1954, although M-14 rifles chambered for it were not available until 1957. The 308 has also been adopted by more than two dozen other nations, but in different rifles."
Soggy Bottom Outdoors
Gold Member
Here's my opinion.....it and a $1.50 might get you a cup of coffee. I shoot a Ruger M77 MarkII chambered in .280 Rem which is a .30-06 case necked down to a 7MM bullet. Some people call it a 7MM non-magnum. It's topped with a Leopold 6X16X60 and a Timney trigger set at a crisp 2lbs. To me successful long range (500yds plus) comes it three parts. First, find a ammo that your gun "digests" well and do not depart from it. It will require a lot of trial and error but what fun you'll have. Secondly, learn to shoot your gun. Just as golfers have a stance and pitchers have a wind-up shooters have a position. Grip, focus, breath, hold, squeeze, repeat. REPEAT A LOT. Lastly, learn to judge windage and elevation and how it will effect your shot. How can you shoot long distance if you don't know the distance? I practice a lot, several hundred rounds a year, some on coyotes and some on ground hogs. My Ruger really likes Speer Nitrex 160gr, a bit big for deer but she likes them. Longest shot in a hunting situation 456yds, closest 12ft.
Jesse masterson
Platinum Member
Sound like you've done your research, can't argue with facts . I stand corrected! I do know though the 22250 was developed from the 250 savage.
gsganzer
Elite Member
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You can get steel targets at JC Steel Targets. He does some charity work with kids and it's the kids that make them, fill orders and ship them. Once in a while he has a "group buy" that he lists on 24hrcampfire.com
treetrimmer01
New member
N80
You will need more scope, Trade up to a 8-24 leopold long range target. Keep your 270
BUY a Jewell trigger 2 OZ, It will fit right in your rem and you can put it in yourself.
Go to HTTP-- WWW.6mmbr.com-6mmBRforum.html Lots of good info.
If you enjoy target shooting they will be no end to what you are going to buy HA HA
My advise buy the good stuff the first time. (A lot cheaper in the long run)
Good luck
Treetrimmer01
Don
You will need more scope, Trade up to a 8-24 leopold long range target. Keep your 270
BUY a Jewell trigger 2 OZ, It will fit right in your rem and you can put it in yourself.
Go to HTTP-- WWW.6mmbr.com-6mmBRforum.html Lots of good info.
If you enjoy target shooting they will be no end to what you are going to buy HA HA
My advise buy the good stuff the first time. (A lot cheaper in the long run)
Good luck
Treetrimmer01
Don
Here is a goos site for long range shooting. Sniper's Hide also check out their forums.
IkeRoberts
Bronze Member
I've seen competition at 1000 yards with a rail gun. Completely home made. You buy the barrel steel and bore it yourself. Then you make a receiver. Mount this on a u shaped channel which rests on a set of sandbags. The majority of guys use a wildcat shell like a 443 necked down to a 22 bullet. At 1000 yards they are shooting 3 foot wide targets. They generally shoot about every three months out at a range in Williamsport,PA. Accuracy is very much affected by the weather conditions. Interesting to see at least once but not my cup of tea.
foggy1111
Elite Member
I've done considerable long-range varminting, hunting, and target shooting. Couple things to consider.
Do you want to shoot big game? targets, varmints? If you are looking to shoot targets and varmints it is lots easier with a smaller caliber gun.....and recoil, costs, and barrel wear (heat) wont be such an issue.
Often hunting rifles are considered accurate if they shoot 1" groups @100 yards. Follow that to mean 2" @ 200, 3" @ 300 and so on. Good rule of thumb is 1 MOA is 1" at 100 yards. (prox)
A good varmint or target gun can reduce that group by about 3 IF you have a very well built gun, well crafted ammo.....and the experience in shooting long range.
Reloading is key to accuracy. Tailoring loads to fit your chamber is paramount.
I used to manufacture accuracy reloading gear.....and have made some long shots and did some competitive rifle shooting. I've shot prairie dogs out to 1000 yards and more....and killed some big game animals at some pretty long ranges (even made a few TV shows on long ranges). It takes a good gun, good optics, good ammo, a good rest, and knowledge to reliably make a long shot. Fun hobby.
There are better places to learn about shooting than a tractor site. (no offense guys) Try The High Road, Bench Rest Central, and more to learn how. Read everything you can.
Do you want to shoot big game? targets, varmints? If you are looking to shoot targets and varmints it is lots easier with a smaller caliber gun.....and recoil, costs, and barrel wear (heat) wont be such an issue.
Often hunting rifles are considered accurate if they shoot 1" groups @100 yards. Follow that to mean 2" @ 200, 3" @ 300 and so on. Good rule of thumb is 1 MOA is 1" at 100 yards. (prox)
A good varmint or target gun can reduce that group by about 3 IF you have a very well built gun, well crafted ammo.....and the experience in shooting long range.
Reloading is key to accuracy. Tailoring loads to fit your chamber is paramount.
I used to manufacture accuracy reloading gear.....and have made some long shots and did some competitive rifle shooting. I've shot prairie dogs out to 1000 yards and more....and killed some big game animals at some pretty long ranges (even made a few TV shows on long ranges). It takes a good gun, good optics, good ammo, a good rest, and knowledge to reliably make a long shot. Fun hobby.
There are better places to learn about shooting than a tractor site. (no offense guys) Try The High Road, Bench Rest Central, and more to learn how. Read everything you can.
foggy1111
Elite Member
George. One thing to note: accuracy at long range is a matter of degrees. You can spend ALLOT of time and money chasing smaller size groups.
If I read you correctly.....you want to experiment on long-range shooting (more than go after big game at long range). If so, I would look at the purchase of a heavy barrel varmint rifle in a caliber of 6 mm or smaller. Then....go for a good quality variable scope with a magnification of up to 20x or so and get some good mounts.
I beleive you gotta learn to reload too. So set yourself up with a single station starter press and gear.
This is going to be a loong journey.....and you likely will gravitate to more and better gear as time goes by. Hard to get it all right the first time.
If I read you correctly.....you want to experiment on long-range shooting (more than go after big game at long range). If so, I would look at the purchase of a heavy barrel varmint rifle in a caliber of 6 mm or smaller. Then....go for a good quality variable scope with a magnification of up to 20x or so and get some good mounts.
I beleive you gotta learn to reload too. So set yourself up with a single station starter press and gear.
This is going to be a loong journey.....and you likely will gravitate to more and better gear as time goes by. Hard to get it all right the first time.