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  1. #11
    Elite Member jerrybob's Avatar
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    Default Re: another senseless shooting-hits home

    Quote Originally Posted by 2LaneCruzer View Post
    A very poignant real life example, Stefanie. The gun grabbers, the ACLU and other libs are willing to go to battle for "people like this", who in spite of their danger and drain on society "have their rights", but the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of law abiding gun owners are fair game for the death of a thousand cuts.
    Well said 2Lane........accountability is the issue......we must start holding people accountable for their actions. Enforce the laws already on the books.......we don't need more laws.....we have plenty!
    I Intend to Live Forever.....So Far....So Good!

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  2. #12
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    Default Re: another senseless shooting-hits home

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrybob View Post
    Well said 2Lane........accountability is the issue......we must start holding people accountable for their actions. Enforce the laws already on the books.......we don't need more laws.....we have plenty!
    That would be nice.... But to many bleeding hearts want to give the "he was just getting his life back together" or "he was raised in a tough environment" or "He has never done anything like this before" or "He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time" crowd a slap on the wrist. ....Prolly so they can vote next time around

  3. #13
    Super Member 2LaneCruzer's Avatar
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    Default Re: another senseless shooting-hits home

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomtint View Post
    That would be nice.... But to many bleeding hearts want to give the "he was just getting his life back together" or "he was raised in a tough environment" or "He has never done anything like this before" or "He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time" crowd a slap on the wrist. ....Prolly so they can vote next time around
    Unfortunately, the decisions we make today will live with us tomorrow and forever...the same goes for our fathers and our children. We find ourselves in a situation that is not necessarily of our own making, but some day we have to look at ourselves in the mirror and realize that no matter what our situation is today, blaming others will get you nowhere...and that it's OUR problem and OUR decision as to what we are going to do about it. No matter how much of a Bast*rd our Dad or Mother was, the consequences are ours to handle at this minute...so suck it up and get on with your life and make it better for your spouse and your kids and your grandkids and....
    Have Wings, Will Travel.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2LaneCruzer View Post

    Unfortunately, the decisions we make today will live with us tomorrow and forever...the same goes for our fathers and our children. We find ourselves in a situation that is not necessarily of our own making, but some day we have to look at ourselves in the mirror and realize that no matter what our situation is today, blaming others will get you nowhere...and that it's OUR problem and OUR decision as to what we are going to do about it. No matter how much of a Bast*rd our Dad or Mother was, the consequences are ours to handle at this minute...so suck it up and get on with your life and make it better for your spouse and your kids and your grandkids and....
    Exactly, .... But the problem is that the powers that be feel like everyone can be rehabilitated or is just should be given a second, third,....tenth chance. There is no real consequence for action. Jails are over crowded, courts are to busy, funds are to limited. I don't know what the cost to in prison a 25 year old for life....but i think my tax dollars are better spent on a 30.00 bump on the electric bill for the day, than free room and board for life. If this were the case and enforced... This would likely slow down the epidemic of rogue shooters

  5. #15
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    Default Re: another senseless shooting-hits home

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomtint View Post
    Exactly, .... But the problem is that the powers that be feel like everyone can be rehabilitated or is just should be given a second, third,....tenth chance. There is no real consequence for action. Jails are over crowded, courts are to busy, funds are to limited. I don't know what the cost to in prison a 25 year old for life....but i think my tax dollars are better spent on a 30.00 bump on the electric bill for the day, than free room and board for life. If this were the case and enforced... This would likely slow down the epidemic of rogue shooters
    Nothing is as simple as we would like, I worked with criminals for over thirty years and associated with them most of my life and off hand can't remember ever talking to one who actually thought they would get caught, so the length of sentence really had no deterrent effect that I could tell. I signed off on the paperwork that sent my cousin to prison for fifteen years for drugs; judge gave him a stiff sentence and put him on probation thinking the lengthy sentence would be a deterrent, didn't work.

    For year or policy was anyone caught selling drugs went to prison, no questions asked; prisons got full and no one could see a decrease in drug sellers. We built new prisons so we could "get tough on crime" and on our last prison, we didn't have enough money left to open it for almost two years. Now we have no place left to put them, so not many go to prison.

    I don't know the answer, but I know it ain't simple and right off hand I can't think of anything that hasn't been tried.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleR View Post

    Nothing is as simple as we would like, I worked with criminals for over thirty years and associated with them most of my life and off hand can't remember ever talking to one who actually thought they would get caught, so the length of sentence really had no deterrent effect that I could tell. I signed off on the paperwork that sent my cousin to prison for fifteen years for drugs; judge gave him a stiff sentence and put him on probation thinking the lengthy sentence would be a deterrent, didn't work.

    For year or policy was anyone caught selling drugs went to prison, no questions asked; prisons got full and no one could see a decrease in drug sellers. We built new prisons so we could "get tough on crime" and on our last prison, we didn't have enough money left to open it for almost two years. Now we have no place left to put them, so not many go to prison.

    I don't know the answer, but I know it ain't simple and right off hand I can't think of anything that hasn't been tried.
    It is not main stream yet. But once pot is sold, taxed and controlled like alcohol is....that will free up some space in the prison system. There is IMO a huge amount of people in prison who are good for nothing more than consuming oxygen. Example.,,,you molest a child, commit a aggravated rape, aggravated murder, kill a cop, armed robbery, home invasion, car jacking, Just to name a few... You get the hot seat. Period. This will free up funds and cots

  7. #17
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    Default Re: another senseless shooting-hits home

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomtint View Post
    It is not main stream yet. But once pot is sold, taxed and controlled like alcohol is....that will free up some space in the prison system. There is IMO a huge amount of people in prison who are good for nothing more than consuming oxygen. Example.,,,you molest a child, commit a aggravated rape, aggravated murder, kill a cop, armed robbery, home invasion, car jacking, Just to name a few... You get the hot seat. Period. This will free up funds and cots
    Drugs are being handled a lot differently than in times past and I don't remember the last time anyone went to prison for using marijuana while a friend of mine went to prison for three years many years ago for possessing three joints. Many jurisdictions only issue citations for use or just have the people throw it out. Marijuana may well be legal some day, but it's not now, so we are left with what is not what we would like it to be.

    I have no real objection to the death penalty for certain crimes under certain circumstances, but I have seen way too many people who were convicted of capital offenses later exonerated to jump on a wholesale death penalty bandwagon. Come up with a sure fire way where we don't wind up executing innocent people and I will be open to discussion on it. Having worked in and around prisons, I personally feel life in prison is more of a punishment than the death penalty and the way it is now is cheaper than execution. I don't look for any significant changes in the prisons system or punishment/rehabilitation matrix any way soon, so we have to look to what to do in the interim and as I said, I just don't know.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: another senseless shooting-hits home

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomtint View Post
    Exactly, .... But the problem is that the powers that be feel like everyone can be rehabilitated or is just should be given a second, third,....tenth chance. There is no real consequence for action. Jails are over crowded, courts are to busy, funds are to limited. I don't know what the cost to in prison a 25 year old for life....but i think my tax dollars are better spent on a 30.00 bump on the electric bill for the day, than free room and board for life. If this were the case and enforced... This would likely slow down the epidemic of rogue shooters

    What is the basis for your claim that we do little and should be tougher with our laws.
    List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/wo...anted=all&_r=0
    U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations

    By Adam Liptak

    Published: Wednesday, April 23, 2008



    The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners.

    Indeed, the United States leads the world in producing prisoners, a reflection of a relatively recent and now entirely distinctive American approach to crime and punishment. Americans are locked up for crimes — from writing bad checks to using drugs — that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries. And in particular they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations.

    Criminologists and legal scholars in other industrialized nations say they are mystified and appalled by the number and length of American prison sentences.

    The United States has, for instance, 2.3 million criminals behind bars, more than any other nation, according to data maintained by the International Center for Prison Studies at King's College London.

    China, which is four times more populous than the United States, is a distant second, with 1.6 million people in prison. (That number excludes hundreds of thousands of people held in administrative detention, most of them in China's extrajudicial system of re-education through labor, which often singles out political activists who have not committed crimes.)

    San Marino, with a population of about 30,000, is at the end of the long list of 218 countries compiled by the center. It has a single prisoner.

    The United States comes in first, too, on a more meaningful list from the prison studies center, the one ranked in order of the incarceration rates. It has 751 people in prison or jail for every 100,000 in population. (If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.)

    The only other major industrialized nation that even comes close is Russia, with 627 prisoners for every 100,000 people. The others have much lower rates. England's rate is 151; Germany's is 88; and Japan's is 63.

    The median among all nations is about 125, roughly a sixth of the American rate.

    The US is also on the higher end of executions per capita:
    Executions statistics - countries compared - Crime data on NationMaster

    Countries With The Most Executions Revealed By Amnesty International

    Are you suggesting we become more like China?

    Also can any change in policy be referenced which indicates that any specific political party when in power over the past 100 years has made a significant difference?

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  9. #19
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    Default Re: another senseless shooting-hits home

    At one time in our history they tried to ban something else that was thought dangerous. Liquor!! It did not work then for the same reason banning guns will not work now: If a person wants it bad enough they will find a way to get it.

    If they want to ban guns because they kill then they should also ban cars; they kill too. The liquor is not the killer; the driver is!! The gun is the killer; the schizo is!!

  10. #20
    Elite Member Sigarms's Avatar
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    Default Re: another senseless shooting-hits home

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomtint View Post
    That would be nice.... But to many bleeding hearts want to give the "he was just getting his life back together" or "he was raised in a tough environment" or "He has never done anything like this before" or "He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time" crowd a slap on the wrist. ....Prolly so they can vote next time around
    I always use to think that a man was responsible for his own actions, and that he alone controlled his destiny and what he was to become.

    I challenge ANY man here to become a foster parent to any of the unwanted children in our country and make the same ignorant comment attributing the "bleeding hearts" for defending some peoples actions.

    Some children are ****** from day one, they then become unresponsible adults who have children, and the cycle keeps repeating.
    Just because you can't do everything, doesn't mean that you have to chose to do nothing.

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