Generator in a outside building and powering the panel...

[MossRoad]

Tell me why again this isn't an application for a kirk key. I didn't understand your explanation.

I think its because many folks think he wants to backfeed the main panel AND have power at the sub-panel at the same time. The assumption is a key would be an either/or situation and couldn't do both, but maybe it can?

However, he doesn't want to backfeed the main from the sub. He only wants to use the neutral and ground in both directions.

 

[MossRoad]

One more thing to think about....

If you try to pull new wires into a conduit with existing wire in there, you take a chance of "burning" the insulation with friction during the pull. It gets more likely the fuller the conduit, bends, etc... So, either pull out the old wires with a pull-string attached as you do, to use the string to pull them all back in one pull, or suck a rag or cotton ball on a string through the conduit with a vacuum cleaner, then use plenty of pulling lubricant to make it nice and slippery to help lessen the chance of burning the insulation when you pull in the new wires. Use some common sense.

Hahahaha me telling people to use common sense is like the pot calling the kettle black for sure! :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

So, now you weigh the cheap, fast, good triangle... You can only pick two.

Cheap and fast, it won't be good.
Fast and good, it won't be cheap.
Good and cheap, it won't be fast.

 

[daybreak1998]

Howdy,
Wire usage in the conduit when he uses a proper interlock at the main service panel, and uses a 50amp dual pole for generator backfeed, under normal use, and then watch his power usage from that sub-panel during generator use.

wire pulling = it will really depend on how long a run and what if any bends.

 

[aczlan]

In Ontario Canada this is not legal. A power supply line needs to be in a separate conduit from a feed line. Four conductor wire will be needed.

Good thing this wont be done in Ontario.

Any wire, even in a conduit needs to be underground cable.

I am curious what type of wire you are talking about here. Do you mean UF cable, THNW or???

The transfer switch uses all 4 wires and transfers the bonding to the generator. Make sure the generator is set to bonded mode. The cable depth is also regulated and if under a driveway needs further protection.
The bonding must be at the power source, main panel when fed from the utility and at the generator when powered from the generator.

Can you give a source for this bonding requirement? Generac sells a CSA approved transfer switch and it ONLY switches the hots, the neutrals are always bonded together.
Transfer switch: Generac Power Solutions | Service and Support | Online Product Support | Generac Power Systems
Manual with wiring diagrams and schematics: http://soa.generac.com/manuals/RTSE200A3CSA/0H4556

Do it right, and do it once. Don't forget to have it inspected.

I agree, do it right and do it once. I will probbaly have it inspected, time will tell. It will be wired in a safe and foolproof manner no matter what.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

If you try to pull new wires into a conduit with existing wire in there, you take a chance of "burning" the insulation with friction during the pull. It gets more likely the fuller the conduit, bends, etc... So, either pull out the old wires with a pull-string attached as you do, to use the string to pull them all back in one pull, or suck a rag or cotton ball on a string through the conduit with a vacuum cleaner, then use plenty of pulling lubricant to make it nice and slippery to help lessen the chance of burning the insulation when you pull in the new wires. Use some common sense.

Lots of pulling lubricant will be used and if we have a slow day at work one of these days, I will ask the plant electrician what he thinks about it.

Howdy,
Wire usage in the conduit when he uses a proper interlock at the main service panel, and uses a 50amp dual pole for generator backfeed, under normal use, and then watch his power usage from that sub-panel during generator use.
wire pulling = it will really depend on how long a run and what if any bends.

Barn to house is probbaly under 100'. Two 90 degree bends for sure, how it runs underground, I don't know, but where it goes into the wall at each end there are conduit boxes with removable covers
As for power usage, the barn subpanel MIGHT see 5 amps (@240vac) in the dead of winter unless I am working in the shop. The animal barn has a 750w heater (to keep the chicken coop above freezing) and up to 230 watts of heated buckets.

Aaron Z

 

[MossRoad]

It sounds doable. Just not sure about using the neutral and ground as you want to do. Good luckm and let us know how it turns out.

 

[buickanddeere]

Still can't share that neutral with the utility and generator.
Can't pull two more live lines from the generator into the same conduit with cables supplied from the utility .
There are transfer switches that do switch the neutral if the generator has the neutral bonded to ground inside the generator. The transfer switches that only switch the lines are for generators where the neutral floats free of earth connection.
What is closer to the barn? The utility pole with the meter base? Or the house electrical panel which is supplying the barn? Is the utility service 60,100 or 200amp ?

 

[MossRoad]

Still can't share that neutral with the utility and generator.
Can't pull two more live lines from the generator into the same conduit with cables supplied from the utility .
There are transfer switches that do switch the neutral if the generator has the neutral bonded to ground inside the generator. The transfer switches that only switch the lines are for generators where the neutral floats free of earth connection.
What is closer to the barn? The utility pole with the meter base? Or the house electrical panel which is supplying the barn? Is the utility service 60,100 or 200amp ?

Regarding transfer switches switching the neutral... Some do. Some don't. You have to check with your local code. If they say you don't have to switch the neutral, then you don't have to switch the neutral. Some utilities only require a double-pole double-throw switch to switch the two hot legs from utility power to generator power. The neutrals are tied together and the ground remains bonded in the main panel.

 

[buickanddeere]

Moss, I told you why the transfer switch does or does not switch the neutral.