Lasers at aircraft - How to catch?

[r0GuE]

I'm drinking my coffee and thinking about the recent rash of lasers being fired into cockpits of airliners. I work as an engineer, and I just can't figure out how anybody is going to catch the perps unless they install sensor gear on every aircraft.

So I thought it would be interesting to hear from the TBN crew. Short of installing sensors and directional gear on every aircraft, how would you really ever catch them? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[PineRidge]

Rogue I may be wrong but I caught the tale end of the news last night and I thought they said they may already have the guy involved, one of them anyway.

I believe that a laser beam is visible from the source if it pierces fog. At least that what I remember. I have one mounted on a 9 MM Smith & Wesson and if it is pointed out in a clear night you would be hard pressed to find the source.

 

[RoyJackson]

I'm kind of curious as to how serious a problem this is.

I would think that a laser pointed at an aircraft....miles away, would be attenuated quite a bit by the atmosphere. I would think it would have to be a fairly powerful laser...more then most individuals could afford or build, to damage a pilot's eyes. It would seem just a bright light source (like one of those spot lamps you can plug into a vehicle cigaret light) could screw up a pilot's night vision more then a commercially available laser.

 

[johnday]

Since lasers shoot only straight lines, is it possible that the shooter would have to be at or close to same level as the aircraft targeted? I wonder also how powerful of a laser it would have to be to shoot as far as distance the shooter would be away from the airplane? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[DaveNay]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...more then most individuals could afford or build, to damage a pilot's eyes.)</font>

I wouldn't underestimate the money that individuals are willing to spend on their "hobbies". The majority of people would probably consider us here at TBN to be crazy for the 10's of thousands of dollars we spend on our equipment and accessories.

Categorizing these laser incidents as a "hobby" seems crazy to most people, but I would hardly be surprized to find out that these are perpetrated by individual, unrelated (except perhaps by means of the media) 20-30 year olds who just think "Hey, I wonder if this laser can reach an aircraft?"

All bets are off if this happens to be an organized act. There is no "reasonable" ammount of money then.

Dave

 

[RockMtn1]

There are numerous problems with the laser/aircraft scenario. First, as a pilot myself, I don't spend a great deal looking at the ground. Depending on what a aircraft I am flying, the ground can be very inconveient to see due to cockpit configuration. So first of all the pilots must be looking at the ground when the laser fires. Secondly, the USAF has not mastered the art of tracking satelites with their huge airborne laser setup yet, so I doubt that the ability of amatuers to track a moving airliner and aiming the laser at the cockpit window is available. Thirdly, is the power needed to generate a laser beam of such intensity to "burn" the pilot's retina. The power reguirments needed in the visible wavelengths to burn a retina would be large. Fourthly, it would seem to me that someone intent on doing this would utilize the IR spectrum to minimumize that chance of being discovered. IR lasers cannot be seen by the human eye. I am not saying that lasers haven't lit up a cockpit, but the orientation to get to a pilot's eye and do damage would be near impossible from the ground.

 

[NY_Yankees_Fan]

See this newspaper story about this topic at 2 NJ airports a few days ago...interesting.

web page

 

[r0GuE]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( There are numerous problems with the laser/aircraft scenario. First, as a pilot myself, I don't spend a great deal looking at the ground. Depending on what a aircraft I am flying, the ground can be very inconveient to see due to cockpit configuration. So first of all the pilots must be looking at the ground when the laser fires. Secondly, the USAF has not mastered the art of tracking satelites with their huge airborne laser setup yet, so I doubt that the ability of amatuers to track a moving airliner and aiming the laser at the cockpit window is available. Thirdly, is the power needed to generate a laser beam of such intensity to "burn" the pilot's retina. The power reguirments needed in the visible wavelengths to burn a retina would be large. Fourthly, it would seem to me that someone intent on doing this would utilize the IR spectrum to minimumize that chance of being discovered. IR lasers cannot be seen by the human eye. I am not saying that lasers haven't lit up a cockpit, but the orientation to get to a pilot's eye and do damage would be near impossible from the ground. )</font>

I disagree (unfortunatly)

I too am a pilot. I am also an electrical engineer and a marksman (though not a super good marksman).

I am afraid this is certainly organized activity. To have happened at several places suggests to me domestic or international terrorism.
On approach, you ALWAYS are looking at the ground.
On approach you are slow (relativly speaking) and are direct (with an airliner, there is typically long straight approaches).
Lasers do not have to have visible light to damage eyes. The fact that the pilots have noticed the lasers suggest that it might be visible light. I believe that it is not visible light but rather that the airlines have equipped for detection (if not location of source) of the lasers.
Last, I think I could place a beam on an incomming airliner with ease using a scope and tripod.

So I am back where I started. If there is an organized group nailing cockpits with high energy lasers, how would you get them. All I can think of is on board sensors to detect, locate and report laser enegy to the authorities in real time. Big $$. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[TBAR]

Fly an LGB back down the beam.

Problem solved. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Ok...............back to serious discussion. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif


TBAR

 

[PBMAX]

I would agree with you. I doubt it would be to difficult to do this during take off and landings. The article posted claims as many as 8 such events have been reported. Rather than rushing to put eqiupment on planes maybe it would be cheaper to equip the control tower, as most insidents seemed to happend during take offs and landings. Plus, maybe the cockpit screens could have some type simi reflective film on them to dispurse the beams of this frequency as much as possible, if it can't be comlpetly deflected.

I fly a lot for work, so this is really not something I want a pilot to have to worry over. If they catch someone doing this they should put them in room with a few pilots for a few minutes.. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif and maybe even the passengers of one of the planes... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif