Identity thieft - Debt responsibility?

[Henro]

I guess in a stretch this could be related...say someone steals my identity and buys a tractor or tractor parts, for example... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

This morning I was reading an article about the new bankruptcy law Congress passed.

This part caught my eye:

<font color="blue"> "They particularly wanted provisions that would exempt from the new bankruptcy requirements military personnel returning from Iraq and Afghanistan, and people whose indebtedness is the result of financial identity theft."
</font> (my emphasis, neither of these provisions were included)

I guess I’m naïve.

It never occurred to me that someone could represent themselves as me, buy something from a seller who does not verify who the buyer is, and I (and not the irresponsible seller) could be held liable for the transaction???

Am I reading this right?

Guess I better read up a bit more in identity theft! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Buyer beware! OK..

Seller beware! Can live with that...

Unknowing third party beware! Hard to believe, but somehow I don't doubt it... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Wingnut]

That's always been the big problem with identity theft, and the reason it's so popular amongst the "work hard to avoid work" crowd. The onus is on YOU to prove that it wasn't you making the purchase.

I have only one real major problem with the way that banks and credit card companies handle this whole problem. That's the way they react to situations when they happen .... I guess you could say their attitudes are more blase than concerned. Of course, the reason is because you and I end up paying for the problem ... with higher fees, higher charges, etc. Just as with shoplifting, those of us who pay the bills, carry the thieves!
The feds could have done a lot better with this whole bankrupcy thing (I have no problem with the provisions to tighten the noose .... too many people live beyond their means and then consumers who have self-discipline get to pick up the slack) if they'd put some teeth into identy theft laws, and - especially - punishment. Stop making it so easy and lucrative!!!

 

[DocHeb]

It can be very difficult to persuade the seller, credit card company, and Credit Bureau that you really didn't make a certain purchase. It truly is guilty until you prove you're innocent. A google on "identity theft" returns 10,200,000 hits. A non-biased source for information is the Federal Trade Comission.

 

[Dargo]

Henro, I have not kept up with the new bankruptcy legislation, but from what you posted, aren't they saying that military personnel and people who are the victim of identity theft will be exempt from the new, more strict, laws? In other words, those who are victims can still file under the "old" rules?

Also, I happen to know a lady who spent her every last cent caring for her husband who was dying (and did die) of cancer. She has been too proud to file, but working nearly every waking hour, she cannot earn enough to make the minimum payments for the medical bills she has from her husband's battle with cancer. They had insurance, but the co-pay part reached an enormous sum. If someone like this lady cannot file, and has to live the rest of her life in virtual poverty paying for her husband's cancer battle, then something is really wrong with our bankruptcy system!

I think that if you are a victim due to theft, you shouldn't have to file anyway. You shouldn't be responsible! I mean, c'mon on; there is no way that I can ever be as smart as all the electronic wizards out there trying to steal info. I try to be prudent, and protect myself the best I can, but not for one minute do I think that I am smart enough to prevent identity theft if the thief is really after my info.

Actually, I'm still waiting to hear of the first case where someone has their identity stolen by someone literally goes nuts and kills the identity thief. I've spent a lifetime building my reputation and credit history. If someone steals it and ruins it, I'm afraid a bit of my repressed "redneckness" will have to surface! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Dargo]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( (I have no problem with the provisions to tighten the noose .... too many people live beyond their means and then consumers who have self-discipline get to pick up the slack))</font>

I strongly agree with you on this. Even to the point to where I've been called cold hearted. If you go out and run up your credit cards, spend more than you can afford, borrow money for vacations, buy new cars every year, etc. and get yourself into financial trouble; as far as I'm concerned, you created your situation, so you should be responsible to pay. I have no desire to pay for your financial incompetency. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

However, not all circumstances are like that. That is why I mentioned the true story of the lady I know paying for her husband's battle with cancer. And, our military guys and gals; a lot were called up from reserves. Many had to leave good paying jobs in order to allow us to keep our jobs and our way of life. If they fall behind because their military pay is not up to what they made, absolutely I feel responsible to help them! It is the least we can do!

I'm sort of off the bankruptcy subject, but there are certainly some very different circumstances to bankruptcy filings.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> It can be very difficult to persuade the seller, credit card company, and Credit Bureau that you really didn't make a certain purchase. It truly is guilty until you prove you're innocent. </font>

DocHeb and all,

I guess the following part of the newspaper article is what troubles me...

<font color="green"> and people whose indebtedness is the result of financial identity theft." </font>

This implies that it is POSSIBLE to become GREATLY indepted as the RESULT of identity theft.

Since "identify theft" is indicated as the reason for the debt, not irresponsible purchases/spending, there seems to be some kind of contridiction here.

Sort of like someone going into a bank and saying "my name's Henro, give me the money!" And then Bird putting on his uniform again and taking me away to do time for bank robbery! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Is it safe to assume if one can prove he did not do it, that he will not be held responsible for debts? I'm sure this must be the case.

Now that I think about it, the writer of the article I quoted probably did not get his words right...

 

[DannyD]

bankruptcy should be considered only for those that have fallen on hard time due to loss of job (not because of lousy work habits etc), due to medical expenses, due to loss of a bread winner income etc.

Those who abuse the system, and brought about this law should be forced to pay whatever they have after basic expenses, food, clothing, housing. Ever had the tax man audit you after you are caught cheating? From a 3rd party it is brutal, you state your income, expenses and what is left they take...........and dont be late. Obviously this bill has many traits of who pays the politicians.

As for those in the military, I strongly feel that their pay is not enough first and foremost, secondly there should be a law that makes lenders forgo their interest and principal payments while they are serving their country. This would include only transportation, and credit card, unsecured, and mortgages in a one to one consideration. I know of a professional in my work line, that has 2 times been called up only to lose his practice both times, his last time he found someone to fill in for him, one day a week, and his service was in country, so he could go home on weekends. Those who serve our country deserve every break available while in service and while rejoining the work force.

 

[EarPlug]

What is the difference a regular theft & identity theft? I you tractor is stolen you would still owe the bank for the note. If insured the insurance company would pay you the value but you are still responsible for the debt.

When someone uses your identity to steal isn't that really the same thing? You have lost something of value. Now it could/should be argued that the seller is responsible for not confirming that it was you making the purchase. But, we have all made internet and telephone purchases and how can any seller really be sure who we are.

I guess the insurance industry is going to make another pot of gold buy selling use identity theft insurance.

Jack

 

[DannyD]

Another rant, different subject. How many know what is in their credit history? I found out the hard way (denied credit, A++ rating though) due to too many credit cards open, some more than 12 years. these were used to buy furniture, 12 sac etc. I thought they would close them after paying off.........nope, keep them open, and in my opinion an open door for someone to use them, not me though. I have written both my congressmen about a law requiring a period of say 5 years of NON USE that lenders would have to contact the account holder, and ask about keeping the account open. My concern is that with all the mergers etc of banks and financial institutions who can keep up. Some of the "stores" that these cc were issued at are not even around any longer but the card still shows on my report. It is not easy to find all the correct people and places to close them out, most I dont even recognize any more.

just a thought

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( the writer of the article I quoted probably did not get his words right )</font>

I'm not too sure he did get it wrong since I read the same thing in The Dallas Morning News this morning.