Gun Laws

[toddler]

Thanks Fred,

I'll try to avoid the dark side. As you probably know, we have essentially no restrictive state gun laws in VT except for hunting. Massad Ayoob says we go way beyond the "shall issue" laws to the "if you a nice guy or gal you can carry a gun". Clearly not a bad thing in VT, but when I tried to find a gun safety course, none of the three gun shops I spoke to knew of one, and neither did the state troopers down the road. They gave me the name of an officer who used to offer one, but I haven't heard back from him yet. Maybe if we had a course requirement for a CCP, we'd have courses. Flying to Thunder Ranch or LFI just ain't cost effective./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Now this stupid law on magazine size. Besides pissing me off with its stupidity, it seems like a good place to start to challenge the constitutional compliance of some of these laws. Let's say I want to make high capacity magazines, there's a law that says I can't, even though I can still buy one????? Is that the entire law, or is that a little dingleberry stuck on a bigger law? Also, could I just buy a high capacity magazine in Mexico and UPS it to VT? I'm not selling anything, or manufacturing anything in that case?
Is the law banning the bayonet mount the same law? Is this the Brady Bill??

Todd

 

[cp1969]

I heard an interesting statistic, given by none other than Lloyd Bentsen when he was Sec of Treasury.

He said that '80% of the nation's homicides occur in 20 counties.

Seems to me like those 20 counties would be a place to start with increased law enforcement funding, if we're really interested in reducing homocides.

 

[PBMAX]

I would like to see some type of basic safety course required reguardless of age...For all except maybe ex law inforce ment etc.But it could get ugly.....

Yes I even include Ex-military folks like myself...Having been a gunnersmate and trained people trust me there are plenty that need it...While training folks I ran across some that had been in the Navy for several yrs and hadn't touched a hand gun sence boot camp and trust me that was not training...It was fast and to the point.The Army,Airforce,and Marine training is probable lots better.I mean in the middle of the ocean who are you ganna shoot at with a hand gun???Yes there would be rare occasions... On my ships only those that were qualified to carry small arms were able to stand certain watches...Though any who wished could be qualed if they chose to...But to simplify things just flat require it...That way no one could cry favoritism...

Then there is the Grandfather issue...You woukd probable be Ok if you said all poeple that have a current CCP are exempt to the course if they have had a permit for x amount of time and are a certain age...But were to you cut off at 30yrs old 40???with a CCP in you pocket for how long? 2yrs,5yrs...just becuase you've carried one for yrs doesn't mean you ever learned proper gun safty...So were do you draw the line.
I think the easiest would be for 1st time CCP's...Regardless of age...Require the safty course...

As to the 50cal limit.I gues you have to set a limit if you gonna use one..50 sounds ok for hand guns and simi auto weapons.

Laziness is the Father of invention.../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Lil' Paul
Proud owner of TC21D

 

[toddler]

So what about fully auto weapons? Or 3 shot burst weapons? Special safety course to get a permit? No way, no how? Seems there should be a way to own one. They'd be great for mole hunting/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. Or do you feel "semi-auto" is non-restrictive enough?
Todd

 

[ejb]

There is a way to own fully automatic weapons. I live in a state with very restrictive gun laws (i.e. average citizens have a really hard time but the criminals have plenty).

Even in the supposedly "toughest gun law in the country" state I know several people that own fully automatic M-16 rifles. Their is even a club not that far from here that gets together regularly to shoot them. All you need is the OK from your local police dept and the background check. How willing the police chief is to give them out various by town.

I for one have NO PROBLEM with honest law abiding citizens from owning as many fully automatic weapons that they want.

In switzerland I understand, all males from about 18-45 (not sure of ages) are required to own one. Bet they don;t have many house-breaks over there....

 

[heehaw]

don't think any gun law changed the outcome of a crime??
if you ever get a chance to listen to the lady from texas, that left her gun in the car because the cafeteria her and her folks were going into didn't "allow" concealed weapons, please do.
she says that law cost her parents lives, and the lives of others. of course this law changed the outcome the wrong way, as usual. we also have the same law, that stores can put up signs that make it illegal for us to carry our weapons inside, even though we are legal??
heehaw

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Todd. For information about safety courses, E-mail my wife at DPiper@mothersarms.org . She is the state coordinator for this organization and they hope to have their second session in Oct. We are twenty miles south of you in Middlebury. If you would like some more info about firearms and the laws pertaining to them , go to The Powderhorn Outdoor Sports Center in Tafts Corners and talk to my son Joe. He is their gunsmith/sales clerk and can , if given the chance, tell you more then you want to know. Regards, Dave.

 

[TerryinMD]

<font color=blue>cp1969, I thought about them, but the antique weapons are not all that plentiful. </font color=blue>

Scruffy, I have a 54 Cal T/C Renegade Flintlock that was made in 1978. More people own muzzleloaders than you may realize. A 475 grain maxiball and 120 grain of powder, fully rifled barrel, makes it very, very lethal. Antique in operation only!!

Like anything else governed in this country. The laws/statutes are only as good as they are written and enforced.

Two weekends ago, I had the opportunity to speak to my Congressional Representative. He is not supporting a bill that I do not like. I had written to him not to support it and he replied within a week telling me his views (agrees with me). The interesting part of our conversation was this. In his estimation, a good Bill passed by the House and Senate is a Bill that is hated by all sides. In other words, it does not satisfy one side or the other. The bill stands on its own and does what it is supposed to do. Now, how often does that happen. Not too often in my book.

I would venture to say that a few of the "make them feel good" laws are passed as trade-offs for other sponsored legislation. "You pat my back and I'll pat yours." /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

Terry

 

[scruffy]

Terry, I understand where you are coming from on the .54. I know that many replicas are made. I used to have a .52 rolling block, until my brother had it while I was in the service, and got into collecting. Yeah, I agree, some (and I mentioned it somewhere) stipulations would need to be made for the blackpowder weapons. I still think that the cutoff for the more powerful smokeless powder rifles of today should be cut off at the .50 cal mark. Yes, I was thinking .50 caliber to exclude the higher power weapons such as the crew served type.

 

[toddler]

Dave,
I was in there peaking around today. Had a bunch of questions re. constitutional law and the shops sales related to high cap magazines. Don't think any of the three guys I briefly spoke to had ever actually read the law. One also didn't think guns for which high cap magazines are available sell better, which, if it's true, would rule out a gun mfgr or importer selling newer models from appealing the law based on it's impact on competition. Just an idea, figured Styr's importer could easily win a suit against the US gov. since they've out Glocked Glock, but aren't selling as well as Glock, if the mag capacity was a strong selling point for Glock.

Maybe one of the guys there was your son? One smokes a cigar, one wears a 1911 cocked and locked on r hip, one has short hair and a dark baseball style cap, and also wore a pistol, don't know what type. All very pleasant to the short bald guy who said he wasn't there to buy a gun.

They were so busy, I never got to ask about a pistol safety course. They were helping other customers, and I got paged and left. May go back some other time, but I can't say that's my kind of gun shop. Too crowded a place for me to want to be several guys wearing easy to grab loaded guns. (Would have preferred they be less conspicuous given how many young kids were in there buying paintball stuff etc) I will e-mail your wife re. a safety course!
Thanks for the tip,
Todd