osprey
Bronze Member
I wonder what the future holds for this company ?? How did GM get in such a financial bind ?
General Motors
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Av8r3400
Platinum Member
1.) Ineffective, short sighted management locked into outdated measures and requirements which are dictated to them by greedy shareholders (who are their real bosses)
2.) Extremely greedy (and out of control) unions who negotiated sweetheart deals (benefits and ridiculous retirement packages) over the last 30 years with management groups who suffer from the #1 reason.
These two reasons are why Detroit is floundering and the "imports" made in the US are flourishing. A simple answer to a complex matrix of issues, but, true never the less.
2.) Extremely greedy (and out of control) unions who negotiated sweetheart deals (benefits and ridiculous retirement packages) over the last 30 years with management groups who suffer from the #1 reason.
These two reasons are why Detroit is floundering and the "imports" made in the US are flourishing. A simple answer to a complex matrix of issues, but, true never the less.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( 1.) Ineffective, short sighted management locked into outdated measures and requirements which are dictated to them by greedy shareholders (who are their real bosses)
2.) Extremely greedy (and out of control) unions who negotiated sweetheart deals (benefits and ridiculous retirement packages) over the last 30 years with management groups who suffer from the #1 reason.
These two reasons are why Detroit is floundering and the "imports" made in the US are flourishing. A simple answer to a complex matrix of issues, but, true never the less. )</font>
That about sums it up..... But, I'd go a bit further than 30yrs.. Companies like GM have retired employees that have been collecting retirement benefits for 30yrs.. Add a new group of retirees each year.. More people on retirement benefits than working payroll... OOPS!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
2.) Extremely greedy (and out of control) unions who negotiated sweetheart deals (benefits and ridiculous retirement packages) over the last 30 years with management groups who suffer from the #1 reason.
These two reasons are why Detroit is floundering and the "imports" made in the US are flourishing. A simple answer to a complex matrix of issues, but, true never the less. )</font>
That about sums it up..... But, I'd go a bit further than 30yrs.. Companies like GM have retired employees that have been collecting retirement benefits for 30yrs.. Add a new group of retirees each year.. More people on retirement benefits than working payroll... OOPS!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
rdln
Veteran Member
It started with the volkswagon beetle and pot smoking anti-american hippies in the sixties snowballed from there to the SUV crazed nineties where gas was relatively cheap and GM didnt seem to need an updated gas mizer carline and the hippies daughter, moonbeam graduates college with an accounting degree working for a firm handling american automotive retirees pensions but doesnt think her job is linked to automotive industry and sees her parents now have a lexus and thinks its cool to buy a scion. She gets laid off, gets po'd at corporate america and gov't, decides to hold a sign outside a ranch in Waco and starts the cycle all over again.
Americans need to be more tribal.
Americans need to be more tribal.
ToadHill
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GM has no one to blame but GM for the mess they are in. When you negotiate a union contract you have to keep in mind that a union is a political body. They try to get what they can for their members so they can get elected again to that union job at which they don't have to work and get great perks. I spent 35 years negotiating union contracts for a living and I can tell you that it takes a company with a backbone to stand up for what is good for the company and not give in to the unions demands, especially if the company is making money. Many company negotiators never realized until recently that negotiations are a 2 way street. The union always has demands and not many companys go into negotiations with demands of their own. It's amazing how many times I talked to a client company and asked them what they needed out of the negotiation process and they had never thought of negotiations from that perspective. Companys started to wake up about 15 years ago, I guess GM is late to the party.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
I spent 8 years as a Union Shop Steward and it always amazed me when contract time came around. FOrsome reason I always expected more out of the company. I know our side was totally unprepaired for a strike or that we had any sort of backing, but the company negotiators were clueless. They said one thing, but did another. One time they said it would cost the company five million dollars to do what we wanted. They spend ten million fighting it and ended up giving us what we wanted anyway. We would ask for the moon, expect nothing and end up with almost everything we wanted. Each time it happened, we'd joke about it and have less respect for them. It's sad. That company has now been bought out by another one, but from what I've heard, they are just as bad with negotiating as before.
GM has been very public about their complaints against the expenses of the unions and their retirment packages. They are also the ones who negotiated those packages and agreed to the terms. Hard to feel sorry for a company that runs themselves into the ground and wont fix the problem. Management gets bonuses and raises for doing a poor job, but blames the workers for their problems.
I know a guy who works at the GM plant in Fremont, CA. He makes $30 an hour and jokes about how little he does. It's a game with some to see what they can get away with because the unions will protect them. Management wont do anything about it because it's not worth the headache to fight them, so it just gets worse.
From what I've heard, Toyota pays their employees similiar money, but without the unions. Their people are extremly productive. Here in their US facilities, they are making huge profits, while GM and Ford are losing billions of dollars. I don't think there's any one company that makes that much better of a vehicle than the other, but the cost to build one at GM versus the compition is pricing them out of business.
It's so bad now that the government will probably have to come in and give them a bunch of money that they will just waste, but it will postpone the problem. Look at United Airlines and there problems. United wants to cut salleries to emoployees and give raises to managment. That was huge news and all over the headlines. How are you gonna turn a company around like that?
I think GM will last awhile longer, but it's gonna cost all of us if the government gets involved. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Eddie
GM has been very public about their complaints against the expenses of the unions and their retirment packages. They are also the ones who negotiated those packages and agreed to the terms. Hard to feel sorry for a company that runs themselves into the ground and wont fix the problem. Management gets bonuses and raises for doing a poor job, but blames the workers for their problems.
I know a guy who works at the GM plant in Fremont, CA. He makes $30 an hour and jokes about how little he does. It's a game with some to see what they can get away with because the unions will protect them. Management wont do anything about it because it's not worth the headache to fight them, so it just gets worse.
From what I've heard, Toyota pays their employees similiar money, but without the unions. Their people are extremly productive. Here in their US facilities, they are making huge profits, while GM and Ford are losing billions of dollars. I don't think there's any one company that makes that much better of a vehicle than the other, but the cost to build one at GM versus the compition is pricing them out of business.
It's so bad now that the government will probably have to come in and give them a bunch of money that they will just waste, but it will postpone the problem. Look at United Airlines and there problems. United wants to cut salleries to emoployees and give raises to managment. That was huge news and all over the headlines. How are you gonna turn a company around like that?
I think GM will last awhile longer, but it's gonna cost all of us if the government gets involved. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Eddie
slapshot
Silver Member
What it really boils down to is they dont sell cars. Some of their competitors out sell them 4 or 5 to 1 in some vehicle catagories.
You can be lazy, inefficent and greedy all day long, but if your selling what people want you'll be fine. Many business do this every day and succed in spite of themselves. But when what your selling is not what anybody wants, you got problems.
-dave
You can be lazy, inefficent and greedy all day long, but if your selling what people want you'll be fine. Many business do this every day and succed in spite of themselves. But when what your selling is not what anybody wants, you got problems.
-dave
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