Global Warming?

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   / Global Warming? #1,061  
You keep saying that, but do no explain why. I do not buy that scientist/engineers cannot quantify man's by-products?


No numbers means not objective. If Man made influences are as significant as some claim, why are they so hard to quantify. Could it be that the "noise" (non man caused factors) is so great that the "signal" (man caused factors) cannot be measured? How is it the we can "know" CO2 is a green house gas and rank it compared to other green house gases and yet cannot quantify the actual amount of green house effect?
Having followed the "debate" since the 80's. IIRC a number of issues were deemed unable to quantify have been at least partially quantified.

Lots of unknowns. Do you know how much heat an industrialized nation is putting into the atmosphere? Every industrialized nation since the onset of the IR? How about you, do you know how much you are changing the planet? How about nuclear blasts? Sure we can make guesses, form an hypothesis and that's what we do. But how do we know if the planet is heating or cooling on its own to add or subtract the effect of man's involvement? The industrial revolution is only a few hundred years old, we need more time to build our theory but that doesn't mean we aren't formulating what we see objectively.

What science does is observe facts and form an hypothesis about those facts, as new facts come in the hypothesis becomes more refined. When our hypothesis holds up for many conditions we call it a theory: The Theory of Gravity, for example.

No numbers mean no objective? Not true, we can use logic to establish an objective assessment:

Objects fall down not up, gravity must be pulling them toward the earth and not repelling them away from the earth.

That's an objective assessment not a subjective one without numbers.

Rob
 
   / Global Warming? #1,062  
How is it the we can "know" CO2 is a green house gas and rank it compared to other green house gases and yet cannot quantify the actual amount of green house effect?
 
   / Global Warming? #1,063  
How is it the we can "know" CO2 is a green house gas and rank it compared to other green house gases and yet cannot quantify the actual amount of green house effect?

Again, we can form an hypothesis from our observations but there are many variables.
We can know from observation that one gas has greater effect in a controlled environment than another but quantifying that degree without a control condition is not a simple task.

Put a drop of water in a flask of water both temperatures known. We can calculate the final temperature and know the effects of our drop of water.(This is a controlled condition)

Now place a drop of water of known temperature in a flask that is being heated or cooled by an unknown amount. Determining the change is not possible.(This is not a controlled condition)

Rob
 
   / Global Warming? #1,064  
What does that have to do with the question?
 
   / Global Warming? #1,065  
Than we must be socialists! We're the second worst polluter in the world.

Two things that cause pollution: industry and human consumption. Developing nations use 1 watt a day per person, we use megawatts a day. We use 25% of the world's energy, who do you think creates more pollution us or a country with little or no electric from coal plants?

I'm not a socialists, I don't believe in a fully socialistic system BUT I do believe in socialistic programs within a democracy. As I said, it's not a black or white issue.... except to those individuals who don't understand how systems work. Those individuals are very afraid of what they don't understand or are ill informed about.
Those of use with fewer children pay more tax than those of us with more children, this is a form of socialism. We are paying people to have more children in an over populated world. Does that make this a socialistic country?

Read some history. Political ideologies fail because of man's corruption, the way this republic is now failing. The ideology of the republic orchestrated by great men like Jefferson and Franklin is being compromised by human greed... we all suffer when that happens.

Again, Franklin's poignant words: "It's a republic, madam, if you can keep it!"

I think you have a very narrow perspective of the world, parroting a right wing philosophy is as myopic as parroting a left wing philosophy. Go read different views like Howard Zinn's, "A People's History of the United States" find out why the Roman Empire failed, go read Gibbon.

Here's the question I ask all those people who narrowly focus on ranting radio hosts: What have you gained from listening to them?
I'm the one with free energy who knows about renewables and technology, not you. I'm the one polluting less and in a much better position if the power grid fails. So maybe if you started thinking about what is actually going on in the world instead of listening to people who want to give you someone to blame, which doesn't you absolutely no good, you might actually have a better life. But people always want to blame those who think differently than they do because that means the onus of their inability to cope with a changing world doesn't fall on them.
You want to blame Al Gore, tell me exactly what good that does you?
That's rhetorical, it does no good whatsoever!

Am I smarter than you? If intelligence is the ability to constructively resolve one's problems than who is smarter, you pay for electricity and I maximize the benefits of the system we both live in. You blame Al Gore and I don't concern myself with him. If tomorrow the power grid fails you get to stick a wet thumb in your ear while I go about life as usual. You know nothing about the technology that makes life better while I utilize it to its maximum. So you tell me who's smarter.


Rob

Not name calling - although that is your practice, you start it then whine when it comes back to haunt you,

You are Phony & Liar. If you were as great as you think you are, you would not be wasting your time here.

Now mister Know It All, Is global warming worse than global cooling. Come on answer the question. Just like you Demand of everyone else.

You do more assuming than most anyone I ever met.
Your ASSUMPTIONS
I listen to talk radio - WRONG
I listen to Glen Beck - WRONG
I'm not educated - WRONG
I tell you I moved houses - you call them mobile homes - WRONG - and have yet to take back your DA statements. Or address how much greener that is than your wind mill.
My family and I have been using used lumber since long before you were born. But your solar panels are saving so much more than we ever will.
I drive a 1997 truck that now has just over 90,000 miles. You have a great little gas saver with almost twice as many miles, but you are taking care of the planet saving our using less fuel than I do. Hold on just a second, It's 1/2 the age of my truck. Bet it took a lot of energy to build that Fine Skateboard. Lets look at Ton Miles. You have yourself a nice little trailer if needed. That little baby will tow up to 2,700 LBS. You either drive real slow creating a hazard or that thing is eating up that Subbie. OOPPPSS Now I'm Assuming. I will still be driving my truck when your Subbie is being crushed up as scrap metal, if you drive as much as you say.

Can you haul a tractor with backhoe and other items. I not only haul my equipment to places where its needed, I also picked up a tractor for a friend with a round trip of almost 500 miles.

Another Answer - Why are you using mercury filled bulbs made in China with all the Hot Air you have.

A good place for you would be France, they need some real Smart people and have just elected a Socialist president. With luck we will get rid of our Socialist president.

As I have said before. If anyone does not recycle or do green things outside of your very narrow view, they just aren't doing it right.
 
   / Global Warming? #1,066  
Not name calling - although that is your practice, you start it then whine when it comes back to haunt you,

You are Phony & Liar. If you were as great as you think you are, you would not be wasting your time here.

Now mister Know It All, Is global warming worse than global cooling. Come on answer the question. Just like you Demand of everyone else.

You do more assuming than most anyone I ever met.
Your ASSUMPTIONS
I listen to talk radio - WRONG
I listen to Glen Beck - WRONG
I'm not educated - WRONG
I tell you I moved houses - you call them mobile homes - WRONG - and have yet to take back your DA statements. Or address how much greener that is than your wind mill.
My family and I have been using used lumber since long before you were born. But your solar panels are saving so much more than we ever will.
I drive a 1997 truck that now has just over 90,000 miles. You have a great little gas saver with almost twice as many miles, but you are taking care of the planet saving our using less fuel than I do. Hold on just a second, It's 1/2 the age of my truck. Bet it took a lot of energy to build that Fine Skateboard. Lets look at Ton Miles. You have yourself a nice little trailer if needed. That little baby will tow up to 2,700 LBS. You either drive real slow creating a hazard or that thing is eating up that Subbie. OOPPPSS Now I'm Assuming. I will still be driving my truck when your Subbie is being crushed up as scrap metal, if you drive as much as you say.

Can you haul a tractor with backhoe and other items. I not only haul my equipment to places where its needed, I also picked up a tractor for a friend with a round trip of almost 500 miles.

Another Answer - Why are you using mercury filled bulbs made in China with all the Hot Air you have.

A good place for you would be France, they need some real Smart people and have just elected a Socialist president. With luck we will get rid of our Socialist president.

As I have said before. If anyone does not recycle or do green things outside of your very narrow view, they just aren't doing it right.

I agree completely 100% (or more)!
 
   / Global Warming? #1,067  
What does that have to do with the question?

As I said, we can isolate a gas, measure it with respect to other gasses in a lab and evaluate the differences. We can't do that outside a controlled environment. The planet is not a controlled environment.

Rob
 
   / Global Warming? #1,068  
houstonscott said:
Yeah, oil and gas are incredible sources of energy. Clean abundant, cheap, and USA has enough for 2000+ years.

HS

HS

The sun is our best source of energy. Clean, cheap, and the world has millions and millions of years of it.
 
   / Global Warming? #1,069  
The sun is our best source of energy. Clean, cheap, and the world has millions and millions of years of it.

The closest the man gets to renewable is his car registration.

Rob
 
   / Global Warming? #1,070  
Did someone mention a Growing Earth??

Here's the answer!:thumbsup:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJfBSc6e7QQ]Conspiracy of Science - Earth is in fact growing - YouTube[/ame]
 
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