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  1. #2191
    Gold Member Rainbody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IslandTractor

    You clearly have no idea how science works. Presenting data that contradicts accepted wisdom is exactly what gets you attention and promotion in an academic setting. The naive view that non commercial science is all about kissing butt is simply rediculous and flat out wrong. Where do you come up with this stuff?

    In commercial science such as pharmaceutical research, results not pleasing to the employer are often suppressed though even that is much more difficult now than in the past due to new NIH and FDA regulations and policies. I'm sure there are other commercial examples and perhaps some government lab examples (Congress does like to meddle via the budget process) but it is REALLY hard to suppress academic research. Your example of climate scientists suppressing a doctoral candidates work because it contradicted earlier work is not believable as multiple individual scientists would review any such work and they love cutting each other down a peg or two. If Prof A tried to suppress work. Profs B,C and D would have a field day. We would all hear about it in near real time.

    The Internet allows anyone whose work is suppressed to "publish" on line without further peer review or control. Where are the data that are being suppressed? This notion that contradictory data is being suppressed is just another variation on black helicopter boogie man conspiracy theory.
    Where to begin? How many students you know get As by calling out the prof? Yeah whole bunches of those. Lots of students getting in climatology to debunk it.
    Im not even going to get into how the elected president of the field, puts out the direction for the field. Take a look at AMS a few years back. Ever read that letter from Prof saying how his community was being hijacked. Its been post. Put down party line and that red drink and come to reality.

    As for studies getting pigeon holed, there's plenty out there. They just get ignored (tree ring study in Europe) because they don't meet "shock value". ( see prior quotes from NASA).
    I know it's a tough reality to face that beloved academia is as faulty as the rest of us.

    Still not biting on the political flavor of science? The federal studies calling people inferior in past where labeled science. Nothing political there. Nope not an agenda at all. Just pure science.

    How about that homework on Hansen? Good guy? Bad Guy? How about fraud?

    Bottom line is that these studies are to serve a political purpose. The results are adjusted.If you can't see that, well I can't hold your hand and I honestly wish the best for you.

    PS the black helicopters are the good guys. Unless your a commie. Best of luck!

  2. #2192
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    Default Re: Global Warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Egon View Post
    Anybody know how Noah got all those animals and food into the Ark?
    Dehydration.
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  3. #2193
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    Default Re: Global Warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmax12 View Post
    There are so many ways to respond to that.

    Let me try an unconventional approach.
    Humanity's flaws are evidence that He is very real.
    You cant develop that in any logical fashion.
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  4. #2194
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPYDERLK
    Dehydration.
    Brilliant! Freeze dried most likely.

  5. #2195
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPYDERLK
    You cant develop that in any logical fashion.
    Your conclusion precedes discussion. Like your experiments?
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke*

    “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” Ancient of Days

    My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37aM75LaEDk&list=PLGLwt3_lSbxxRtjMLHJDpqEK 9vcq9IfsJ

    t

  6. #2196
    Super Member 2LaneCruzer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPYDERLK View Post
    Dehydration.
    Who says science and the bible can't be reconciled? Just imagine...a lyophilized elephant...all I can say is you better have him sealed in a glass tube or else make sure the storage room is water tight!
    Have Wings, Will Travel.

  7. #2197
    Elite Member /pine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbody View Post
    If you don't think that a scientist or whomever has a vested interest in getting a paycheck, your not ground in reality. And the jab at free enterprise will only paint you as a commie. But that is the thing isn't it. We've covered that chapter already. Hard to dispute their own words. You carry the card or just donate to the cause?

    How do you get a Phd you ask. Like say in climatology. Why you have a large study that adds to the field of climatology. A peer reviewed study with hard data kept on file for either 5 or 10 years. Do you think your peers would support your study proving them a fraud? You think you even get a BS or masters in climatology when your thesis is about ice at the south pole increasing? I wouldnt see a lot of As in your future trying to prove the estblishment is wrong. And lets be honest, few will try. I'm sorry to say it's that way in most fields. Theres little room for out of the box ideas. It's not hard to understand when you know how these communities work.

    Oh and there's no consensus. Not by a long shot.

    Great job on the name calling.

    Btw What did you find out about Mr. Hansen?
    Well said...
    Slash Pine
    blunt and succinct but sincere...in the immortal words of Popeye..."I yam what I yam"

  8. #2198
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    Default Re: Global Warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2LaneCruzer View Post
    Who says science and the bible can't be reconciled? Just imagine...a lyophilized elephant...all I can say is you better have him sealed in a glass tube or else make sure the storage room is water tight!
    There is always the ultimate enablement to fall back on: The all powerful god. By definition ... and faith --The answer to any problem.
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  9. #2199
    Elite Member /pine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming?

    What Kind of World Do We Live In?

    In 2008, the famous naturalist David Attenborough expressed concern that modern schoolchildren could not identify common plants and insects found in nature, although previous generations identified them without hesitation. Modern children, it seemed, were cut off from the experience of nature, and from play in the natural world. Many factors were held up to blame: urban living; loss of open space; computers and the Internet; heavy homework schedules. But the upshot was that children were no longer being exposed to nature and no longer acquiring a direct experience of nature. It was ironic that this should be happening at a time when there was in the West an ever greater concern for the environment, and ever more ambitious steps proposed to protect it.

    Indoctrinating children in proper environmental thought was a hallmark of the green movement, and so children were being instructed to protect something about which they knew nothing at all. It did not escape notice that this was exactly the formula that had led to well-intentioned environmental degradation in the past--the deterioration of American national parks being a prime example, and the American policy of forest fire prevention, another. Such policies would never have been instituted if people really understood the environments they were trying to protect.

    The problem was that they thought they did. One can argue that the new generation of schoolchildren will emerge even more certain. If nothing else, school teaches that there is an answer to every question; only in the real world do young people discover that many aspects of life are uncertain, mysterious, and even unknowable. If you have a chance to play in nature, if you are sprayed by a beetle, if the color of a butterfly wing comes off on your fingers, if you watch a caterpillar spin its cocoon--you come away with a sense of mystery and uncertainty. The more you watch, the more mysterious the natural world becomes, and the more you realize how little you know. Along with its beauty, you may also come to experience its fecundity, its wastefulness, aggressiveness, ruthlessness, parasitism, and its violence. These qualities are not well-conveyed in textbooks.

    Perhaps the single most important lesson to be learned by direct experience is that the natural world, with all its elements and interconnections, represents a complex system and therefore we cannot understand it and we cannot predict its behavior. It is delusional to behave as if we can, as it would be delusional to behave as if we could predict the stock market, another complex system. If someone claims to predict what a stock will do in the coming days, we know that person is either a crook or a charlatan. If an environmentalist makes similar claims about the environment, or an ecosystem, we have not yet learned to see him as a false prophet or a fool.

    Human beings interact with complex systems very successfully. We do it all the time. But we do it by managing them, not by claiming to understand them. Managers interact with the system: they do something, watch for the response, and then do something else in an effort to get the result they want. There is an endless iterative interaction that acknowledges we don't know for sure what the system will do--we have to wait and see. We may have a hunch we know what will happen. We may be right much of the time. But we are never certain.

    Interacting with the natural world, we are denied certainty. And always will be.


    MICHAEL CRICHTON

    August 28, 2008
    Slash Pine
    blunt and succinct but sincere...in the immortal words of Popeye..."I yam what I yam"

  10. #2200
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    Default Re: Global Warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by tcreeley View Post
    What is the temp in NC? typical, atypical - I am curious.
    When we first moved here- before I had the chimney up- October was a cold month. It was in the 30's and colder most nights in the house. We used to really bundle the kids up putting them to bed. Sometimes we'd find ice where it had spilled on the kitchen floor from the night before.
    The window is wide open every night beside the bed. I hear the loons calling still from the lake a mile away. Frogs are out and about still, some bug I can't place is chirping through the night. I enjoy it- but the loss of summer days due to uncomfortable heat days makes it an easy thing to give up -if we could go back to what it was. I can dress for the cold, it is hard to dress for the heat.
    You are using your memories to consider if the weather is typical. Per my memories, we are having a typical early October weather.

    October Weather in North Carolina - Average Temperatures and Rainfall

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