Sweating Copper/Brass

[JimBinMI]

Hey all,

Need some experienced help here. I have a swimming pool and currently have three 4' x 8' solar panels connected using one inch copper pipe. The water leaves the pump and a valve on the return line when tightened allows some of the water to be directed to the panels to get heated up.

I did all of the copper sweating a couple years ago and did fine for an amateur, no leaks! I bought a brass valve two days ago to sweat onto the return line so that I could limit how fast the water returns from the solar panels to the return line so that it could pick up more heat. I could not get the solder to sweat into either end of the copper piping. Solder was melting on the copper with flame removed but I couldn't seem to get the brass hot enough. Is there a trick to this? I called the plumbing store where I bought it and he said that you just had to get the brass really hot. I'm using regular propane fuel, is that the problem?

Since I couldn't get it to hold, I had to repair the 1" copper where I had cut it to insert the valve, that all went back together fine, just really frustrating that I couldn't get the brass valve installed! Where did I screw up?

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[Cowboy]

Jim
Are the valve ends male, or female?
Could it be the valve is not hot enough to accept the solder too?

I had such a situation once. I brushed the area I was soldering with a wire brush then, applied some powder flux to my brazing rod (correction solder, sorry bout that bird) and, it sealed up great.

The standard propane torch should be all you need for heat.

Good luck.

Cowboy
BigBoyz Toyz

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Cowboy on 7/1/00 10:06 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[Bird]

Are ya'll talking about using "brazing rod" or "solder"? I didn't think the old fashioned "standard" propane torches that you put on the 1 pound bottles of propane would ever get anything hot enough for brazing, but usually worked for soldering or sweating copper. I used a Spitfire propane torch for several years, but when it played out and I couldn't find another one, I now use a Weller that I got from Wal-mart. But instead of using the 1 pound bottles, which wouldn't work upside down, etc. with the old fashioned torches, I have a 10' high pressure hose hooked up to a 40# LPG bottle, and I've never had a problem either sweating or brazing. I use the powder flux for brazing, but the paste for soldering (of course, used lead solder for years, but now use lead free silver solder).

Bird

 

[JimBinMI]

Cowboy,

Valve is female on both ends, so 1" copper goes in on each side about 1".

I heated this sucker for a long time and it would not take the solder, used flux and emory cloth on all surfaces.

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[Bird]

JimBinMI, if you have a good torch, you just need to apply the heat to the heaviest piece, i.e., the brass instead of the copper.

Bird

 

[JimBinMI]

Bird,

Sorry for the confusion, I assumed that sweating meant solder. I am not using brazing rod. I had the brass so hot that it "popped", made a big noise inside. Valve still works but I couldn't get it to take the solder.

Any tricks?

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[Bird]

JimBinMI, sounds like you're doing it right, so I don't know. I do wonder about the popping, though, and what could cause that; did you let a little water get into the line? It really takes a lot of heat if it isn't good and dry. I also wondered about what kind of valve. If it's all brass, you should be all right, but if it had rubber or plastic parts, also, they can very easily be destroyed by the heat.

Bird

 

[JimBinMI]

Bird,

I've got one of those torch heads that has the trigger lighter. Puts out a blue flame. I tried heating the brass but it still didn't seem to want to take the solder.

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[Cowboy]

Jim
I ditto with, Bird. Sounds like you are doing everything according to non-plumber standards. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Makes me that much more thankful for PVC.

Cowboy
BigBoyz Toyz

 

[JimBinMI]

Bird,

It could have had some water in it when it popped. I had been trying to solder it onto the pipe and when that didn't work, I cooled it in water, then put in on a bench to try to solder to the other end of the valve which is to receive a 5" long pipe that has a threaded fitting on the end that returns to the return line. I did finally get it to take some solder but I don't think it's a water tight connection.
The space I have to work in when I connect the valve to the other end is tight and hard to get heat to all sides, that's the end that I couldn't get to take any solder.

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!