Contractor payment schedule advise

[EddieWalker]

Obviously you still don't "get it"

Not sure who this was meant for, but since I'm in the trades, it's something that interests me.

I'm also one who "doesn't get it."

You have been very clear as to some of the advantages to hiring a lawyer and putting the responsibility of making the contractor do his job on the lawyers shoulders. What I does anybody need a lawyer for building a home or shop?

It's pretty simple and straight forward. You pay for work done, and if you're not happy with what's being done, you fire the contractor. If the contractor screws up really bad becuase of a lack of skill, knowledge or just plain laziness and it will cost time and money to undo, then yes, that's a good time to hire a lawyer.

A good example was the thread from "Tiles" about a contractor that they hired to pour a concrete foundation. The guy did a terrible job and after a year of fighting him, he redid it. I forget the details, but remember that some, if not all of that expense came out of his pocket.

There is no way that a lawyer could have predicted that, stoped or or made him do it right. All the documentation, contracts and legalise in the world is useless when you got a guy who's incompetent, lazy or dishonest.

This is the same in every trade, including the Law. Assuming that a guy is knowledgable about building homes because he's a lawyer isnt' going to get the building built any better, cheaper or faster.

I don't get it. What will the lawyer actually do? What will the contract he writes actually accomplish?

Eddie

 

[Kendall69]

..stating that it was all "useless."

Obviously you still don't "get it"

Yes all LEGAL ADVICE from laypeople, who live in any other part of the county and NOT the posters state or County is useless.

Why useless, because the law is the law is the law. Getting information from a bunch of good ole boys on a tractor site, ME INCLUDED, is useless when it come to the law...WHY YOU MAY ASK, because we are NOT LAWYERS WHO PRACTICE IN THE POSTERS STATE.

Get it, we the TRACTOR POSTERS are not qualified, nor is it legal to give legal advice, since we are not lawyers - and that's the advice the poster needs., not " I heard one time about..., or I had a guy tell me about this guy who.., or the classic I remember 20 years ago we......

Any useless advice like this is doing a disservice to this site and to the poster, and often time posters take what is spewed on the net as Gospel, and get in trouble. That's the bad thing about the net, unqualified "experts" on everything.

We are qualified to give advice BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE, ( including lawyers) about tractors and other great information and experiences, but t THE LAW - NO WAY! ...Does anyone seriously want to argue that NON LAWYERS, should be giving legal advice...HUH!


ONE MORE TINE: Then I'm through trying to hammer this in. Get legal advice from a lawyer NOT from ANYONE I repeat ANYONE on the ENTIRE INTERNET, as it will be USELESS as it is concerned to your particular situation, in your particular state. It's useless until a lawyer approves every syllable is approver.

Example:
"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." 烹ill Clinton, during his 1998 grand jury testimony on the Monica Lewinsky affair

What next, should we be giving advice about brain surgery here, and have that taken seriously?

I seriously doubt anyone here is "disparaged" because I am advocating that they can not give legal advice, and that their advice INCLUDING MINE is useless - nice try.

 

[Kendall69]

..lawyer isnt' going to get the building built any better, cheaper or faster.

I don't get it. What will the lawyer actually do? What will the contract he writes actually accomplish?

It's not a Lawyers job to get it done cheaper, better, faster, that's your job during the negotiations with the contractor YOU select.

What will a lawyer do? PROTECT YOU. All these forms that contractors use are written to protect THE CONTRACTOR, not you the home owner.

knowledge or just plain laziness and it will cost time and money to undo, then yes, that's a good time to hire a lawyer.

This reminds me of closing the barn door after the animals ran away. You know how a lawyer can prevent a contractor from BEING LAZY, put in a clause that states if you don't get this done my this time you will loose this much money. If you want to see workers, work their tail off, add a penalty clause to the contract, so the lose money EVERY day they are late.

stoped or or made him do it right.

Yes a Lawyer can advise you to fire a bad contractor, and hire one to do it right and sue the "other" contractor for the amount it took to do it right. You would not have to wait a year, the Lawyer would advise perhaps immediately to have it done right.

 

[SnowRidge]

So informing the OP that my neighbor paid off his electrician before the work was done, and the work still isn't done, is legal advice how?

Suggesting that it is a good idea to have a hold back in a contract is legal advice how? It's actually information on what is common practice.

Reviewing the contract terms to make sure that they are in the proper legal terminology, comply with statutes and regulations, and don't place the client in legal jeopardy, now that is legal advice.

I just spoke with a real estate attorney, the kind you think can give advice which isn't useless, in contrast to TBN members whose advice you deem useless. I asked him about a fairly complicated land swap, which may or may not require a new survey of a large piece of property whose ownership won't change, and thus could be an unexpected and unwelcome expense. The question was, "In order to comply with county planning requirements, and in order to prepare the deeds, will all of MR X's property have to be surveyed or just the portion he will convey to us." My attorney's legal opinion, "Ask the surveyor."

Not every question, nor every answer needs to go before or come from an attorney.

 

[midcarolina]

Kendall69,

The OP asked for comments on What's typical..... He did NOT ask for legal Advise.

The forms I pointed him to are legal binding forms.....

You may need your lawyers advise before you wipe your @** but that does not mean everyone does.......

 

[MarkV]

Stumpfield, I happen to be in the trades and you are correct there are some bad stories out there of contractors that do unscrupulous things. For the most part though contractors are just small business people trying to do a good job and make a living. Most of us depend on our reputation and word of mouth so we can’t afford to ruin that for one small job. In the big scheme of things yours is a relatively small job for a builder.

In my opinion the best thing you can do is talk to some people who the contractor has done work for. You will find out real quick if there were problems that should make you look for someone else. If you want to know what the local standard is for construction contracts talk to a local bank that issues building loans. They all operate off of a contract system that requires specific things completed and inspected before they release funds. Any builder in your area that does much home building will be familiar with that standard. Following the draw system used by the banks will offer you and the contractor reasonable protection.

MarkV

 

[California]

In my opinion the best thing you can do is talk to some people who the contractor has done work for. You will find out real quick if there were problems that should make you look for someone else. If you want to know what the local standard is for construction contracts talk to a local bank that issues building loans. They all operate off of a contract system that requires specific things completed and inspected before they release funds.

I think that is the essence of getting the project completed successfully. Why add complications?

I've had as many headaches from crummy lawyer work as bad contractors. Worst was a new graduate, a friend of a friend, who I hired to write up a simple home sale. He was an hour late while the buyer and I waited. He hadn't prepared documents in advance, then got the buyer/seller backward on the docs which meant he didn't understand anything I told him when I engaged him. Then he lost my file before he got the deed recorded. The office where we did the signing soon said they couldn't contact him and wouldn't help find the file they had typed up, or the old original deeds I had left with them. I asked them the procedure for a State Bar complaint, which got them moving on finding my stuff.

In summary, adding an attorney to a simple building project may not keep it simple. And I wouldn't accept legal advice from anyone who quotes a television show to support his point.

 

[rosietheriviter]

The idea of asking others, qualified or not, for advice is totally sound. Many times others personal experiences will expose risks not usually considered by the novice.

Perhaps your situation would be best served by legal advice and asking for strictly legal advice is not an unreasonable suggestion.

I would be happy to accept a contract from a contractor and spend $50 - $100 to have an attorney review it.

I personally would ask for legal advice on any amount I could not afford to lose, but I certainly would not hire an attorney to be my contractor and construction co-ordinator.

It seems the primary question was "What do you think of this payment schedule?"

My response would be to allow a small deposit, progress payments with pay points being foundation and utilities, completed roofing and weather proofing, completion approved by inspector (certificate of occupancy), with a 10% withhold for "punch list.

No flames intended, none expected.

Rose is Rose

 

[schmism]

you submit a receipt for materials that are either installed or sitting on the ground at my jobsite ill pay it.

Ill cut a check for half the labor @~ half way through

the rest wont hit your bank account till i have a signed lean release waver from you and the job is finished.

but even then, you can still have a contractor holding up a job espeically in the punch list phase.

additionally.... do not pay your contractors for the materials they buy. We have started the long slow process of building our own house, and were told by the bank that would be handling the money....

(take for instance the foundation guy) you pay the ready-mix company directly, and get a lean release waver from them. Labor is paid to the foundation contractor, and a second lean release waver from him.

(these days) all to often, the foundation guy would be finished, send a bill for $X (including his concreete cost) you cut the check, he never turns around and pays the ready-mix peeps, who after a month or 2 turn around and file a lean against the property.

the same is true for the lumber company that supplies the framing material, the roofing supplys for the roofer etc. most electricians and plumbers buy ther own supplys and arent "back charging" a supply house... but thats not always the case for the fixtures that you choose, (so pay for those yourself etc)

NOTE: this can get 2 and 3 people deep.... take for instance trusses.... if the framing contractor buys them from the lumber yard, who in turn orders them from a truss company.... We had a situation were a home builder had paid the lumber company for the material (and trusses) but the lumber comapny never paid the truss company, so the truss frabracator came after the contractor for money... (custom trusses, means they know what house/lot they go to = a lean on your property)

 

[MikePA]

What's a typical payment schedule for building a barn or home?

First, find a good contractor by asking friends and neighbors who they used.
Second, get a couple quotes for the same work.
Third, contact a lawyer if it makes you feel better. I've never heard of this, nor done it, for residential construction. Even 'Holmes on Homes' doesn't recommend getting a lawyer involved. These are not complicated contracts. The contractor agrees to perform certain work at a given price, paid according to a payment schedule. But, it's your money and whether the remodel is $10,000 or $100,000, peace of mind is priceless.

The biggest issue is finding someone you can trust and you do that by following the first recommendation.

We just had a new laundry room built and our kitchen/dining room gutted and remodeled. The contractor interviewed us in order to learn what we wanted, e.g., kind of countertop, cabinets, flooring, etc. He returned a proposal, which included allowances for each item, as well as a blueprint for the laundry room. To go further, e.g., plans, permits, etc., we had to sign a contract and pay $3,000. The contractor then got the permits, scheduled the job, etc.

The payment schedule was

• Framing done, including all plumbing and electrical
• Demolition and drywall installed and finished
• Flooring installed cabinets and countertops installed.
• Appliances installed, painting and finish work.

The payments were roughly 25% of the total and had easily (layman) recognizable milestones, not vague terms like "substantially completed". There's no way I'd agree to a payment plan that used such a phrase and it would cause me to think twice about the contractor.

I can not stress enough getting recommendations from friends and family. It also helped us to talk to people who knew the contractor as a person. It also helped that this contractor has done the local version of Home Makeover for the past 2 years. All I had to do was turn on the TV to see his work. Anyone who would take on a job like completing a complete home remodel in 9 days, which meant working almost around the clock can't be all bad.

While we had work done on our house before, it was the typical maintenance related items, e.g., new roof, siding, new windows. We never had any construction done such as an additional room. I was all ready to simply look in the yellow pages when it occurred to me to send an email to people I worked with. One recommended the guy we used. His primary business is building custom homes, million dollar custom homes. He took on remodeling jobs as fill in work. However, he was quick to point out he didn't start building until he had all the materials and he worked every day until he was done. He thought of everything, from a porta potty (so they didn't use our bathroom) to a dumpster to reseeding the lawn.

This contractor came in under budget. He slightly over estimated some allowances. He also credited us for the demolition and painting we did, enough to cover the cost of relocating a window we decided we wanted.