Ventless propane fireplace, HOW does the air in line purge?

[Richard]

We have two propane (ventless) fireplaces in the house and will soon be adding a third in the basement.

During warm months, I take the tanks away (100 pound tanks) and 塗ide them in the woods so the wife is happy.

During this time, the inlet is exposed and I presume they simply air out and lose all the propane in the lines.

Come along fall/winter when I hook it all back up it takes foreverrrrrrrr to purge the lines of air and get enough propane in the pipes to allow the fireplace to ignite.

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>That is what brings me to my question?/FONT>

I知 getting ready to add a third fireplace (basement) and will tap into these lines. (actually the plumber will, not me).

This line will be the LONGEST length of the 3 as they will all tee off the same group of tanks.

Couple questions.

• When the line is full of air, is there any way to easily purge the lines so the pilot light will light quicker?
• Regardless of the answer to #1, during the process of lighting the fireplace, you move the knob to 叢ilot? you push it in and then you hit the igniter. For ME, this process is repeated about a zillion times before I get all the air purged from the system and the pilot, lights up. My question here is WHEN EXACTLY is the air being purged out? Does it purge ALL THE WHILE (continuous) that I hold the pilot light down or does it 澱urp out as I push it each time thereby necessatiging about a zillion 礎urps to purge it?

With cold weather around the corner I just want to get a better understanding on EXACTLY how these things purge the air that痴 in them. I always hate the first light of the year because it takes so darnnnnnnnnnnnnn long. Once I add my downstairs unit, I can only presume it痴 going to take longer because it will probably double the volume of air inside the pipes (it痴 going to be a 40 run compared to probably 15 combined for the other two.

Of course, once the plumber gets here, if there is a code violation for doing it this way, I (he) won稚 do it this way. That痴 just my intent to have all 3 units feed off the same dual tank manifold. As an aside, if someone is concerned.... there is LITTLE worry in me about stressing the flow on a single regulator as we hardly EVER use the bedroom unit and once the basement unit is working, we'll probably hardly use the first floor unit. Even aside from that, when using the "big" one on the first floor, we never turn it up, we have it on the smallest flame it will put out and even that can warm too much unless the fans are on.

 

[hayden]

It will purge while you hold down the pilot button. The click-click button is just the ignitor. I had the same issue in a house that was only used periodially with the gas turned off between visits. The reason it's so slow is that the volume of gas (or air) passing through the system is only enough to run the pilot, which isn't much.

The most obvious suggestion is to not disconnect the takes. If that can't be negotiated with the Mrs, then you'll probably just need to suck it up and deal with it. One suggestion, presuming that the fireplace taps are at different points along the gas line, would be to light the fireplace closest to the tank first, and let it run for a while. That will full the line from the tak to the first fireplace, and perhaps purge out some of the down-stream line. Then move to the next one, etc.

You could always put a valve at the end of the line, and crack it open to purge the air, but that would be really dangerous, likely result in gas in the house, and be a source of future leaks, so I would NOT recommend doing it.

 

[kenmac]

We usually just purge inside at the appliance that burns the gas.The pilot orifice is so small it takes for ever to get gas to the pilot. I haven't blown up a house yet,but I've been doing this for #$%@& yrs.You could do this also .You just have to know when to stop the purge as you don't want to fill the house with gas. Check for leaks

 

[Jimbrown]

Well what I do is take one of the big propane lighters the ones that are about 12 in long or so. Hold it to the termo couple which causes the fireplace to think that the piolt is lit and this turns on the main burner and in just a minute or so the gas is to the stove.

 

[Richard]

Now THAT is a trick I'm gonna have to try!

 

[kenmac]

That's called cheating the safety. You better have your lighter ready when the gas comes out of the burner or else

 

[Richard]

That's called cheating the safety. You better have your lighter ready when the gas comes out of the burner or else

Understood... but even if this process could be used to purge 60% of the air in there...it would save a lot of hassle...

 

[Egon]

Run a purge line to the outside.

Put a valve at the start of the lines so they will remain full when the tanks are hidden.

Enclose the tanks in a manner that will be suitable to the wife so they do not need to be moved.

 

[Highbeam]

Have the plumber add an outside tap for a BBQ at the end of the long run. Purge the line with the BBQ, your fancy new one, and then light the fireplaces.

Three ventless fireplaces eh? Wow. I like chimneys to carry away the poison myself.

 

[midcarolina]

Have the plumber add an outside tap for a BBQ at the end of the long run. Purge the line with the BBQ, your fancy new one, and then light the fireplaces.

Three ventless fireplaces eh? Wow. I like chimneys to carry away the poison myself.

Some people enjoy spreading misinformation, below is copied from ventfree.org

WHAT ABOUT INDOOR AIR QUALITY?

Among informed sources, the concern for CO poisoning has essentially been ç™»ff the table for many years for vent-free gas products, but even well intentioned critics have legitimately asked whether there are other possible harmful effects associated with use and exposure to emissions from vent-free gas products. To address this question, in 1996 the Vent-Free Gas Products Alliance, members of GAMA, an Association of Appliance and Equipment Manufacturers, commissioned an independent research project to be conducted by the American Gas Association Research Division (AGAR). The objective was to measure the primary by-products of gas combustion from vent-free gas products against the most relevant indoor air quality standards and/or guidelines.

The contributors to indoor air quality that were tested were oxygen, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, and water vapor (humidity). The researchers took into consideration the climate in the five Department of Energy heating regions in the U.S., various types of housing construction, and varied volumes of space to be heated. After running hundreds of thousands of computer based scenarios, the results were confirmed by the American Gas Association test house which was modified for all factors.

The researchers concluded that ç*ºent-free gas heating products performed well within nationally recognized guidelines for indoor air quality. This research proves that vent-free gas heating products meet applicable emissions requirements even when used over extended time periods, among sensitive populations, and with units whose maximum heat output exceeds the requirements of the space. Only in region V, (primarily the northern U.S. tier) if the appliance is used in a confined space (a room not able to communicate air exchange with other parts of the residence) there should be a limitation on the Btu/hr input of the heater. This landmark research has been extensively peer reviewed and has served as the basis for acceptance of vent-free gas products by national code groups and state regulatory agencies.

Also, Egon is correct....... Thats the way I would do it