Natural Gas storage?

[SPIKER]

When I saw this thread I wasn't going to post but I liked the idea from a save some $ stand point but wanted to say that from my experience propane gases off at ~62~64 PSI (as measured on my gauge once about 10 yrs back) and using one of the GAS GRILL tanks would not be wise to COMPRESS them to the relieve valves MAY be set to 150 ~ 200 psi but those normally only activate in the event of a fire or error when filling! there are many warnings about people using these to make "remote Air Tanks" or "Portable Air Tanks" and then having them rupture when filling... SO it is not wise to try & do there types of things.

you said you used 100 lb tanks and it only lasted a few min?? sounds about right to me as LP is
1. a liquid, which changes state to gas and
2 propane has a lot more available BTUs per CF than nat gas.

it was an interesting IDEA though there are booster pumps that use the compressed gas to over compress it but you need to refrigerate the gas to assist it in changing states from gas to liquid if I'm remembering stuff correctly. while simply compressing it it is possible but uses a lot more energy than dropping the temps on top of compressing it.

mark

 

[BobRip]

it was an interesting IDEA though there are booster pumps that use the compressed gas to over compress it but you need to refrigerate the gas to assist it in changing states from gas to liquid if I'm remembering stuff correctly. while simply compressing it it is possible but uses a lot more energy than dropping the temps on top of compressing it.

mark

Hey, he has a lot of energy, free natural gas. Just got to find the right compressor and tanks without too much cost.

 

[charlz]

I think tanks would be a lot easier to find cheap then the compressor... people are selling both up on ebay. I found an popular science article that said the Phill station is about $4,000, maybe less if you get tax credits in your area.

 

[HappyCPE]

Well, what about Shaley's idea [post #10] ???
Convert the non-transportable energy into something that is more marketable. Net metering, anyone?

About 10 years ago someone in my office brought a project in that would use nighttime electricity [cheap] to compress air, then bleed off the stored hi pressure air by spinning a turbine that made electricity to sell during the day [expensive]. It sounded hare-brained then, and it didn't work financially, but now, who knows?

Energy storage is sometimes overlooked these days. This is a very interesting thread, especially since a few miles away from me in PA they are talking about drilling new NG wells.

 

[charlz]

Well, what about Shaley's idea [post #10] ???
Convert the non-transportable energy into something that is more marketable. Net metering, anyone?

Big hurdle here might be the wording of the contract... if it says 'for personal use' or something like that. Generating power and selling it is probably not 'personal use'. Plus you then have a generator running 24x7 with all its noise and maintenance, lots of free heat though

Some years ago I saw an article where (I think it was) GE Power Systems was working on a NG fuel cell system that would sit next to your house. It was about the size of a frig and produced electricity and heat.

More recently I saw something about an 'appliance' that would sit under the counter like a dishwasher trash compactor and produce electricity and heat. Can't remember who the company was.

Both of these were to be 'grid tie' type systems. I can't find links to either of these now. Maybe with the price of NG going up a few 100% in the last decade put them out of reach.

 

[HappyCPE]

Yes, the fine print in the contract would make all the difference. On the other hand, I could personally use a lot of energy... for free electricity, I'd be getting a Prius and a plug-in conversion kit, for one.

 

[shaley]

I thought the contract said 200,000 CF per year. Let me do some cyphering out loud. 1 cuft = 302 Watt Hours. 200,000 per year = 60,400 Kw Hours.
The grid will buy power at about 7 cents per Kwhr. So $4,200 per yr. Of course the generation equipment will cost some money.

 

[RobJ]

If we don't hear from MDM in a while I'm gonna get worried. As in Ka-Boom! Right out of the well NG is colorless and odorless. As far as running it on an engine, you would need to scrub it first, I guess you would also need to scrub it first to run through a compressor. NG out of the ground isn't that clean all the time.

Interesting project though.

Rob