Advice for how to get creek water to the house.

[scesnick]

O.K. I posted my idea a few months ago about running the water from my creek up to my house for domestic water. I have terrible well water that is off the chart on iron content. I went as far as clearing a path to the creek with the backhoe and digging a deep hole right in the creek.

Well, I was down there a few days ago and decided That I am doing this project for sure starting in the spring. There are a few things i need some advice about but first I guess i should tell you guys a few things.

The creek is about 450 ft from the house and about 50ft lower than the house. I already have a extensive whole house filtering system that I want to run this water into just to be safe. ( along with a UV light) I would also like to keep my existing well online and functional as a backup system. so, here are my questions for the more experienced.

1. is it possible to use some kind of 2 way switch so my pressure tank switch could turn on either the creek pump and the well pump ( in case one sytem goes down I will have the other one still functional.)

2. what kind and size pump to put in the creek to provide enough lift to get the water to my house?

BTW, I have already had this water tested and it is VERY clean water but like I said I am going to run it through a UV light along with my filter system just to be safe...

 

[Skyco]

The key of course will be to have the pump pushing the water uphill as opposed to trying to suck it uphill, you seem to have already figured that part out I mention it because many people don't realize you can't suck water uphill more than about 23 ft but you can push it very high.
As for which pump...I don't know right off hand. I presume you also need to run power that 450 ft to the pump and current draw vs voltage drop in the wiring may be a problem...easily solved with larger wiring but with copper prices so high..that may hurt.


Here is my concern about creek water..how do you know a deer or some other animal hasn't just relieved themselves in your creek 5 ft upstream from your water intake Does the UV light "sterilize" that? Even if it does...well.....yuck!
I'm asking because I too have a water project I want to work on. I have a spring on my remote mountain property that I want to capture some of and keep a large tank full for whatever use. I need to capture into a large tank because sometimes when it hasn't rained the spring quits. In fact we are in record drought right now and the spring hasn't flowed since well...spring

 

[scesnick]

The key of course will be to have the pump pushing the water uphill as opposed to trying to suck it uphill, you seem to have already figured that part out I mention it because many people don't realize you can't suck water uphill more than about 23 ft but you can push it very high.
As for which pump...I don't know right off hand. I presume you also need to run power that 450 ft to the pump and current draw vs voltage drop in the wiring may be a problem...easily solved with larger wiring but with copper prices so high..that may hurt.


Here is my concern about creek water..how do you know a deer or some other animal hasn't just relieved themselves in your creek 5 ft upstream from your water intake Does the UV light "sterilize" that? Even if it does...well.....yuck!
I'm asking because I too have a water project I want to work on. I have a spring on my remote mountain property that I want to capture some of and keep a large tank full for whatever use. I need to capture into a large tank because sometimes when it hasn't rained the spring quits. In fact we are in record drought right now and the spring hasn't flowed since well...spring

Yep, gotta push the water for sure. Also need power down there and this will be costly. But, I am tired of throwing money at all these whole house water filters. In the end they all only work for a few months. SO, I am going to bite the bullet and do this creek project the right way.
As far as the wildlife contamination, that is what the UV light is for along with my chlorine injection system. This creek supplied water to the small town below my farm for years, they never seemed to get sick and they only treated it with an acient chlorine injection system also. So, I'm not all that worried about that.

As far as your project, you could use a large cistern tank to hold that water for you until you need it. You need to make sure no light gets into the tank. Do a quick google search for cistern tanks.

 

[randy41]

can you pump the water up to a point higher than your house? to a place you can have a holdong tank(cistern?)?
i have undertaken a similar project except that i want the water for irrigation so i'm not real concerned about the quality. also i am mining the water at the spring. i've hand dug a hole for the water to gather in but it has a leak. not sure yet how to fix that but this time of year its too cold to work in water.

 

[Egon]

Do a check on some pump/pipe curves and you'll be able to pick out a pump. I would imagine you will be using a submersible so it should not be a big issue finding one that fits.

As to the two wells have separate switches for each one with at house check valves and block valves for each system.

Just make sure to get a nice pump site rigged up at the stream.

 

[scesnick]

can you pump the water up to a point higher than your house? to a place you can have a holdong tank(cistern?)?
.

I could but do that but I really don't see a reason to do so. I will be using the creek itself as a holding tank. I have a HUGE hole dug already ( atleast 1000 gallon in the hole and a flow of around 200GPM) The creek would be acting just like my well does right now. Of course all the waterline will be buried under the frost line along with the electrical also.

My plan at the creek is to put the pump inside a plastic 55 gallon drum with a bunch of small holes in it to keep the leaves out and maybe some screen wrapped around that also. Then simply anchor the drum to the bottom of the hole so it doesn't float away when the flow gets higher due to rain, snow runoff.
I just need to figure out the otherside of the system and how to use both my well and the creek and how to switch between the systems using my pressure tank switch when neccessary.

 

[450EXC]

I dug a hole in my stream for a small mini pond and it silts in every year after the spring thaws. You might want to keep an eye on your sump to see if it silts in any. Too bad you can't fire up your hydro power project at the same time and power it with that.

 

[scesnick]

I dug a hole in my stream for a small mini pond and it silts in every year after the spring thaws. You might want to keep an eye on your sump to see if it silts in any. Too bad you can't fire up your hydro power project at the same time and power it with that.

That is still in the financial exploration phase. Meaning I got to go exploring to find the money for it. My state hasn't raised the electricity prices yet. they are getting ready to however. besides the micro hydro turbine will be almost as far away from this submersible pump as my house is anyway. ( but I like how you think) Hopefully that will also be in before next winter. i just helped my buddy install his Skystream 3.7 wind turbine. he has a bit more to do on it but should be making power by next week, hopefully.

My stream doesn't silt up at all. it seems to have a clay base to it.

 

[chh]

I built a system like your talking about to supply livestock water to a hog barn. I was using ponds instead of a creek though, one was higher than the facility and the other lower. Your 55 gallon barrel would be a good prefilter for the pump, but according to well guys I've talked to before I built my setups you need to put a submersible pump in a piece of well casing with a well seal on top. This is to provide water flow over the motor. It seems that the pump just sitting in water isn't enough if the pump is run very much. A couple of notches in the bottom can insure that if it bottoms out it won't starve for water. My flow goals were 20+ gpm so my pump would most likely be big for you. I was using 1 1/2hp rated for 40gpm. The distance creates quite a bit of head pressure and reduces flow. Charts are available online and at Lowe's that would give you some examples to work from. 10gpm is the least most homeowners would really be satisfied with. I would recommend you use 2" pipe, not less than 1 1/2" on that length of run. 90 degree corners are also big flow killers so try to design it with as few corners as possible. I used 8-2 with ground direct burial wire to get power from the pressure switches to the waters edge, switched to submersible pump wire from there. My system was on seperate pressure tanks for each pond, using ball valves and flipping the breakers to select ponds or for running them in tandem. Built the system 14 yrs ago and it still operates very well and has required very little maintianence and only 1 pump change. The last pump I bought was about $500 and was a commercial grade pump.

 

[MotorSeven]

Scesnick,

I did the same thing as you plan. My "temp" house in an arched steel building is next to a very small spring fed creek. It only flows part of the year on the surface, the rest of the time is seeps underground. The proposed log house site is 3oo ydas away & 100' up a steep rocky ridge & there is a 35' wide "big" creek between the two sites. So, i opted not to have to dig 2 wells...too much $. I initially tried a Sand Point well tip driven into the bed of the creek, but the clay here is very waterproof, so it immediatly clogged up the screen on the well point.

The small "crik" is within 100', & down only 6'. I had an excavator dig a hole in the bed of the creek about 10'wide and 10' deep. I then had the hole filled with a load of large coarse sand(about 15 tons). I then covered the sand with existing creek rocks, then drove the Sand Point down into the center of the filled hole, being carefull not to drive it too far down. I put a shallow well pump & pressure tank on the system. Inside the pump house i also placed a 325 plastic water tank. Using some pipe & a few gate valves, i can fill the tank using the pump, then close it off and store the water indefinatly. If i need the "back-up water" i simply have to go outside and close the pick-up valve from the crik, & open the pick-up for the tank. I then put heat tape on the exposed pipe running into the crik & wrapped it with self stick insulation. We have had some 20+ nights, & so far, no freeze-up. The sand acts as a giant filter meduim, i would guess it will take years for any sediment to migrate thru the sand and clog the well head. When that happens, it will have to be re-dug & re-filled with fresh sand. I have less than $800 tied up in the entire system including labor.

We do not drink this water(have an artesian on other side of property), but if i chose to properly filter it, it would be fine. Even in the middle of our drought when this crik disappeared from the surface for over 3 months, the "sand pool" had 6" inches of water covering it along with very happy minnows & crawfish.

For your appllication i think yo will need a good sized submersible well piump to push that water up to your house. Filling the hole with sand will also protect the pump head from flood conditions & keep debris etc from being sucked up into the system. Northern Tool carrys the Sand Points, they are less than $100.

RD