Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 49
  1. #21
    Super Member JB4310's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,645
    Location
    Central CT
    Tractor
    J.D. 4310 E-hydro

    Default Re: weight of trailer, tractor and truck

    Quote Originally Posted by George2615
    Quote
    If his truck is rated to tow 7000 and his loaded trailer is 7820 then he is 820 lbs overweight. It doesn't matter if he has 10, 30, 100, 400, or 1000 lbs of tongue weight he's still pulling 820 lb more than the 7K his truck is rated for. Moving weight to the tongue doesn't change the total weight being towed it only shifts its position on the trailer.
    OK, now I get that, but what about deducting the tongue weight to stay within the trailers gvw? is that allowed?
    Well I say I get it but couldn't one argue that your only pulling the weight on the trailers axles and the extra weight on the tongue is now just like cargo on the trucks axle? Sorry if I stubborn!



    (Qoute from KAB)
    "The way that I see it. If I look at the trailer weight rating on the tag on the trailer and it says 7000#. If I add the weight of the tractor, trailer and all other items on the trailer, I get the total of 7820# how does that weight go from being on the trailer to being placed on the truck? Does the weight of the trailer decrease 820# by simply hooking it up to the truck? The last time that I checked it does not, unless you unload weight from the trailer and physically move it to the truck."

    KAB,
    The amount of weight on the tongue would decrease by the same amount the weight on the axles, I'm just not sure if that's allowable to say the trailer is not over loaded, I'm trying to learn here so excuse me if I'm wrong, I'm trying to figure this out now that I am seriously looking to buy an equipment trailer myself.

    John,
    Last edited by JB4310; 03-28-2008 at 08:15 PM.
    JD 4310; E hydro, 300CX, 48 BH, 60" box, 72" rake, 72" rear blade, cast pallet forks, 48", 61"HD & 73" high volume bucket.
    FORD 1700; 2 WD, 2600 hrs.
    JD 320; Hydra lift, 48" deck and 48" snow blade.
    2007 Dodge Ram 3500, Cummins 6.7L, Aisin 6 speed, 9ft utility body.

  2. #22
    Super Star Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    11,242
    Location
    Northern Fingerlakes region of NY, USA
    Tractor
    Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660

    Default Re: weight of trailer, tractor and truck

    "The way that I see it. If I look at the trailer weight rating on the tag on the trailer and it says 7000#. If I add the weight of the tractor, trailer and all other items on the trailer, I get the total of 7820# how does that weight go from being on the trailer to being placed on the truck? Does the weight of the trailer decrease 820# by simply hooking it up to the truck? The last time that I checked it does not, unless you unload weight from the trailer and physically move it to the truck."
    as I understand it there are 2 ratings, the trailer rating and the axle rating, if you have a trailer rated for 5500# with 2 2500# axles then you can only have 2500# per axle,
    however you can legally run that trailer at 5500# if you load the trailer so that 500# of that weight is on the tongue and 5000# is on the axles...

    HTH

    Aaron Z

  3. #23
    Super Member George2615's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,062
    Location
    Central Square, NY
    Tractor
    LS XR3037HC

    Default Re: weight of trailer, tractor and truck

    [QUOTE=JB4310]OK, now I get that, but what about deducting the tongue weight to stay within the trailers gvw? is that allowed?
    Well I say I get it but couldn't one argue that your only pulling the weight on the trailers axles and the extra weight on the tongue is now just like cargo on the trucks axle? Sorry if I stubborn!



    John,
    You can't deduct tongue weight. In the case in question with a total laden weight of 7820 lb on a 7000 lb rated trailer, moving the load to put more tongue weight on the tow vehicle does not take any weight off the trailer. The combined weight of 7820 lb is still on the trailer axles. All you have done is move the center of gravity over the trailer axles. Doing so may have taken some weight off the rear axle but now it is on the front axle. Moving the weight forward of the axles only puts more down force or tongue weight on the tow vehicle.

    I'll put this another way. Picture this, If the loaded trailer was sitting on a weigh scale by itself without the tow vehicle it would make no difference if the weight was in front or behind the trailer axles. It would still weigh 7820 lb. You know that putting more weight in front of the axle creates more tongue weight but it has not removed any weight from the trailer.

    Picture a trailer as a simple see saw and put 100 lb on each side. The see saw would be balanced with a total of 200 lb on it. Now move the weights so there is 75 lb on one side and 125 lb on the other. Of course this will make the see saw off center creating more down force on one side but isn't there still 200 lb on the see saw?

    For towing, the rule of thumb is 10-15% of the total weight should be on the tongue so a trailer loaded to weigh 7K should have at least 700 lb on the tongue.
    Last edited by George2615; 03-29-2008 at 11:43 AM.

  4. #24
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,229
    Location
    Hartselle, Alabama
    Tractor
    Deere 2520

    Default Re: weight of trailer, tractor and truck

    If the truck is not carrying any of the weight, why does the rear end go down? If two men are carrying a 100# log, is the man in back carrying all the weight? If I load my truck bed to the max limit, then hook up a trailer, am I adding any more weight to the truck? JC
    JD 3320 LX5, KK rake and off brand box and rear blade. Millonzi grapple. Deere X495 for grass cutting.
    01 Ram 4x4 2500 CTD and 22' 12k trailer. Want a tiller and dump trailer.

  5. #25
    Super Member JB4310's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,645
    Location
    Central CT
    Tractor
    J.D. 4310 E-hydro

    Default Re: weight of trailer, tractor and truck

    Quote Originally Posted by KAB
    Also, remember that the tow capacities listed by the manf. assume the factory curb weight of the truck + 150# driver. Any added weight will reduce the towing capacity by the same amount.
    Kurt
    Disregarding the trailers gvw, tongue weight or the trucks towing capacity, he is probably over on the GCWR and it looks like KAB is right, if heehaw's truck is rated like mine is.
    I have a 3500 Ram that has a max load trailer weight of 15,700 and a GCWR of 23,000#'s only problem is my truck weighs over 11,000 with my utility body, that brings my max trailer weight down to 12,000. they figured max trailer weight with the trucks original curb weight of 7,155 to keep within the GCWR of 23,000, that only leaves 145 pounds for driver and no extra payload!
    But get this, my truck was a cab/chassis no body at all so the curb weight is just the cab and frame rails not even a trailer hitch, doesn't seem right that they claim a high trailer tow rating when they know you have to have some type of body on the truck.
    So I guess even if you can deduct the tongue weight from the trailers gvw and the trucks tow capacity, it would be over on the GCWR, if that is based on the curb weight.
    JD 4310; E hydro, 300CX, 48 BH, 60" box, 72" rake, 72" rear blade, cast pallet forks, 48", 61"HD & 73" high volume bucket.
    FORD 1700; 2 WD, 2600 hrs.
    JD 320; Hydra lift, 48" deck and 48" snow blade.
    2007 Dodge Ram 3500, Cummins 6.7L, Aisin 6 speed, 9ft utility body.

  6. #26
    Super Member Highbeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,039
    Location
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Tractor
    Kioti CK30HST

    Default Re: weight of trailer, tractor and truck

    Great thread folks!

    "Somewhere on that label it should list the payload of your truck as equipped from the factory"

    Almost never. You will not find a payload sticker but you will find a GVWR sticker and it will not be the sum of the two axle ratings. You calculate cargo capacity by weighing your truck and subtracting that weight from the GVWR.

    These newer pickups like the poster's half ton chevy have pretty high GCWRs but the same old low GVWR of usually about 6200 lbs. Which means that the GVWR will be exceeded before being able to attain that nice high GCWR. For example, my half ton pickup weighs 5800 empty with just me and fuel. If I use up the remaining 400 lbs of GVWR and assume a light 10% tongue weight then I can only tow a 4000 lb trailer despite my 6500 lb tow rating.

    I do agree that the more tongue weight, the less the axle weight of the trailer. As you move that big tractor forward on the trailer both trailer axles are being unloaded as the tongue weight smashes the truck down. The total weight of axles and tongue support will always sum to 7820 though and the 7820 will always be the "trailer" weight.

    Trailers have GAWR and GVWRs too. The GVWR for the trailer should be higher than the sum of the two axle ratings to account for the fact that some trailer weight will be on the tongue and not on the axles. Some trailers using the pair of 3500 lb axles have 7700 lb GVWRs but others use the 10% as a safety factor and rate their GVWR to the 7000lb line. Quite often a 10k trailer like mine has 5200 lb axles but the GVWR will be 9900 to account for some states that have laws requiring a CDL for a 10,000 lb GVWR trailer.
    Kioti CK30HST, FEL w/toothbar, 60" RC, 60" BB, PJ 10k trailer. Weekend warrior hauling 50 miles each way.

  7. #27
    Epic Contributor MossRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    25,176
    Location
    South Bend, Indiana (near)
    Tractor
    Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year

    Default Re: weight of trailer, tractor and truck

    Quote Originally Posted by George2615
    I'll put this another way. Picture this, If the loaded trailer was sitting on a weigh scale by itself without the tow vehicle it would make no difference if the weight was in front or behind the trailer axles. It would still weigh 7820 lb. You know that putting more weight in front of the axle creates more tongue weight but it has not removed any weight from the trailer.....
    George,
    Take a truck and trailer to a scale. Park the trailer on the scale, but leave the truck off the scale. Drive a tractor onto the scale and look at the weight it shows with the tractor on the back of the trailer. Then drive the tractor across the trailer towards the truck. Drive over and past the trailer axles. The scale will show a decrease in weight as you get closer to the truck because the weight is being transferred to the tongue. That is why the rear of the truck goes down. It is carrying more weight and the trailer is carrying less weight. Try it.
    MossRoad

    Click On My Little Tractor
    To See Pictures And Videos
    Of It In Action!!!


  8. #28
    Epic Contributor MossRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    25,176
    Location
    South Bend, Indiana (near)
    Tractor
    Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year

    Default Re: weight of trailer, tractor and truck

    I just layed the end of a 2x4 on a bathroom scale and the other end on a toy truck. I put my kid on the scale and she weighed 48 pounds. I then had her walk down the 2x4 towards the toy truck. The scale said she weighed 18 pounds when she got to the toy truck. That's the same as a trailer and a real truck. It was the best example I could give without loading up and driving over to the CAT scales on the highway. Hope that example helps.
    MossRoad

    Click On My Little Tractor
    To See Pictures And Videos
    Of It In Action!!!


  9. #29
    Super Member JB4310's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,645
    Location
    Central CT
    Tractor
    J.D. 4310 E-hydro

    Default Re: weight of trailer, tractor and truck

    OK, just to argue for the sake of a learning exercise.
    Totally disregarding the trucks GCWR (since we don't know it, even though heehaw is probably over) but just focusing on the trailers gvw rating and the trucks trailer tow rating. Assume we're using a 3/4 ton truck so the GCWR is not an issue.

    So take the sum of the trailer and the tractor = 7850 lbs.
    Hook the trailer to the truck and position the tractor so that 850 lbs are on the hitch, just a little more than 10%.
    Now drive down the road and get pulled over by DOT, they get out their drive on scale that weighs the axles, the trailers axles will equal 7000 lbs combined, is the trailer over loaded? do they unhook the trailer and weigh the jack stand?
    Also is the truck pulling a trailer over its 7000 lbs tow rating using the above scenario? will you get ticketed?
    Just playing devils advocate, challenging you guys.
    John,
    JD 4310; E hydro, 300CX, 48 BH, 60" box, 72" rake, 72" rear blade, cast pallet forks, 48", 61"HD & 73" high volume bucket.
    FORD 1700; 2 WD, 2600 hrs.
    JD 320; Hydra lift, 48" deck and 48" snow blade.
    2007 Dodge Ram 3500, Cummins 6.7L, Aisin 6 speed, 9ft utility body.

  10. #30
    Super Member Highbeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,039
    Location
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Tractor
    Kioti CK30HST

    Default Re: weight of trailer, tractor and truck

    I do not expect the DOT to do anything except weigh the axles of both trailer and truck. Compare those weights to the stickered axle ratings, tire ratings, stickered GVWRs, and the registered GVWR. I believe that the DOT will not require me to drop my trailer and weight the tongue so yes, I will be able to overload the trailer and get away with it. I do not believe that the DOT cares about tow rating or even GCWR.

    Once the DOT finds that all axles, tires, and GVWRs are OK I think they will then go about nit pincking my chains and rigging. Find my loaded gun under the seat and maybe focus on that instead.

    Don't worry about the DOT. Worry about the crime scene investigators that will pick everything apart with a fine toothed comb if you ever get into a wreck with the trailer. Those guys will check to see if your brakes are properly adjusted to show your negligence.
    Kioti CK30HST, FEL w/toothbar, 60" RC, 60" BB, PJ 10k trailer. Weekend warrior hauling 50 miles each way.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
© 2014 TractorByNet.com. TractorByNet is a registered trademark of IMC Digital Universe, Inc. Other trademarks on this page are the property of their respective owners.