Any sunflower experts out there?

[N80]

I have planted sunflowers over the last two years and have had great success in getting them to come up. I planted primarily for the deer but sort of hoped I'd get some flowers for the doves. The reason I plant sunflowers for deer is that it is cheaper than just about any other summer food plot plant.

And for the deer, they have been great, they just go crazy on them. This year, even though the deer got in them pretty heavy I still had hundreds of flowers just starting to bloom so I got pretty excited that I might attract a few doves. One week later the deer had eaten every bloom.

All the food plot guides recommend the peredovick variety of sunflower. They are small, 2-4 feet, with small flowers. Few of mine made it up to 3 feet.

So now I have an idea that I'd like to grow sunflowers for the flowers and doves.

Just down the road a fellow planted sunflowers about the same time I did. He knows less about all this than I do and his soil prep was very poor. He basically just ran a chisel plow through the fescue and most of the fescue stayed. Then he uses a spreader to put the seeds out just like I did and he fertilizes pretty heavily, more than I did. I watch all of this from a distance and figure he isn't going to get much of a turn out. I even poked a little fun at him. The other thing he does is puts a scare crow in the middle of them and dumps cheap cologne all over the scare crow..... I wasn't the only one poking fun at him after that.

Well, guess what? He gets a pretty nice crop of sunflowers! They are much taller than what I planted and the grass and weeds are nearly as tall as the sunflowers and they're pretty spotty in places. But still, he's got a pretty good many sunflowers with big fat blooms and I'm sure he'll attract some doves. And they look nice too.

Now, this is only a stones throw down the road from me so he's got the same deer as I do. He's closer to the road which is a narrow country road with very little traffic so I don't think the location is what kept the deer out. He says he's sure the scarecrow is what kept the deer out and who am I to argue? Seems unlikely but maybe it is. He also said he planted "little black oil' variety. That what you find in bird seed. I don't know if there is a 'big' black oil variety or not.

So here are my questions:

Do deer like some varieties better than others? Some seed companies specifically say that deer like the peredovick variety. Do they dislike others?

Are other varieties more hardy than others? His black oils kept ahead of the weeds and grass.

Does anyone think one scarecrow and a 1 acre sunflower field really kept the deer out? It does not look like the deer ate any of his flowers?

In any case, I'm considering planting either black oil or one of the 'giant' varieties next year. And I guess I'll put up a scarecrow. This guy never seems like he knows what he's doing but its hard to argue with success!

[3RRL]

Hahaha George, your story got me laughing.
I don't know anything about sunflowers either but I was going to sow some seed anyway. I too would like to hear what others will have to say.

[TNhobbyfarmer]

I'm not an expert either, but I thought that peredovick and black oil sunflowers were one in the same. All I know is: 1)deer love those plants and 2) weed control is almost impossible, at least for me.

I have planted a couple of acres with a two row planter and sprayed with recommended preemergent weed control chemicals and ragweed thrives anyway. The deer eat almost all the sunflower plants prior to bloom and I am left an awesome weed crop. If there were awards for weed crops, I would be farmer of the year in my sunflower fields. I finally gave up and admitted defeat. No sunflower crop this year. I sleep a lot better.

[N80]

I won't claim to be weed free, but using a bottom plow to turn over the vegetation and then disking a week later did a pretty good job.

For all I know, peredovik and black oil could be the same variety. However, at the local Farmer's Exchange they treat them as two different things, different bags and different labels. And I got ones that said 'peredovik'. The fellow down the road says his are 'black oil' and they look nothing like mine.

Even more confusing, at Wildlife Seeds.com they sell Black Sunflower (Peredovik Type) and then refers to the same thing as Black Peredovik Sunflower Seed (oil type).

So who knows? All I know is that I want to plant what he planted!

[jinjimbob]

Do you sow the seeds in their shells, or without shells?

[Egon]

Up here we get the smaller black oil type or a larger striped kind. On this I may be mistaken but the stripped have one flower head where the black oil may have numerous flower heads.

They have both been planted on the play farm but none ever even got close to much more than showing some yellow flower before they got mowed down by the deer.

I just broadcast the seeds with the hulls on and then harrow them. They sprout easily.

[TNhobbyfarmer]

Originally Posted by jinjimbob

Do you sow the seeds in their shells, or without shells?

Just sow them in the shell. They will germinate great.

[Deere Hunter]

Not an expert, but here's what I know. Peredovic and Black oil are two different varieties. Peredovic tend to be larger with slightly larger heads and seeds (striped). Black Oil tend to be shorter with smaller seeds. Doves love both, unfortunately so do deer. Ideally, a good seedbed with a row planting is preferable to broadcsting, broadcasting can and does work. I generally plant whatever is readily available and cheap (I have plates that work well enough with either). I have also used clearfield sunflowers that are easy, with Lightning, they work like round-up ready corn. This year the seed was outrageously priced, if you could find it, so I went back to traditional sunflowers, despite having the chemical for the Clearfield. MUUUUCH cheaper to grow traditional varieties.

Applying a preemergent is very good for weed control, and treflan (triafluralin) fits the bill - it tends to get the sunflowers up to the point they can shade out a little weed competition. This year, I sprayed the Treflan, followed by a light discing (2-3" depth) to incorporate into the top layer of soil. Then, row planted, followed by a second application just prior to a rain, which incorporated the Treflan thoroughly. You can then follow with Poast Plus over the top to catch anything that got through. The treflan will not kill anything, but prevents weed seeds from sprouting.

Soil prep is crucial to a good crop of sunflowers, with PH being a big factor, ideally you want this to be close to neutral (6.0-7.0). A soil test is the easiest way to check it out, and your local Clemson Extension service can tell you exactly how to ammend your soil to grow sunflowers, N80. You'll probably need a good bit of lime.

The trick remains to beat the deer. This year, I ran a single wire about 30" off the ground, but I have struggled to keep the DC powered charger going, and as soon as the wire went cold they got in. Once they get a taste, its on!! So far, I have about an acre that is pretty well shot - the drought hasn't helped either. I have about a 1/4-1/2 acre strip in the middle of the field that should produce.

I have had success in the past with cheap deodorants. i used pieces of t-shirts on stakes and branches around the field, and changed scents once a week or after a rain. The DNR guy who plants a public field reported good results with the Plot Saver system, but said he was told it would only work one year and the deer would figure it out. Some folks say a battery powered radio tuned to talk news works to reduce browsing also.

Also, planting dove prosso, browntop millet, and/or corn strips as companion plantings helps to pull doves, and tends to outlast the deer. Just bushhog some strips through the small grain a couple weeks before season, and keep cutting additional strips every week or two to keep the birds around. Remember, doves like clean dirt, so discing clean strips through the field adjacent to the plantings prior to cutting helps. Sunflowers will be used on the stalk, so they can be left standing for cover, and doves will walk into millet stands also, so cut a little and see what happens. Good luck!

[N80]

Thanks Deerehunter, all good advice. I do prep the soil well, pH is about neutral. Fertilize as recommended. And again, I get a bumper crop, tons of them, tons of buds. As you say, it comes down to the deer.

I planted brown top in with the sunflowers and not one came up. Two different fields. Nothing. Think it was a bad batch of seeds.

I still just don't get how this other guy had so much luck. Terrible soil prep. tons of weeds. Same deer as me. The only two variables are the scarecrow and the variety. I think it is a mystery I'm not going to solve and I'm probably not willing to spend any more money to keep the deer out. Initially I planted the sunflowers for them anyway and boy does it work. I'm just going to have to get used to the fact that I'm never going to see any flowers but that the deer will stay on my place during the spring and summer. Have seen several fawns up close to the cabin and they say that if they are fawning in an area they consider it 'home', and that's a good thing.

[Deere Hunter]

Must have been bad seed. Millet usually is hard not to grow.

Maybe the scarecrow is having good results. I've heard the deer will get used to them after a while. I put the trailcam out on the corner of my place, where the deer are jumping the wire Friday, set at 5 min intervals. Sat. morning, I already had 4 pics. I think I will hang a bow stand on that corner soon. I gotta thin 'em out around here this year!