Where to get decent concrete mixer?

[Richard]

Wife wants to rip up our flagstone walkway and part of a patio. I don't know how large an area but it might border 1,000 sq/ft so we'll use that as a reference.

She's thinking on having some colored concrete poured and stamped to look like the flagstone. We've had some of the flagstones cleve and I don't want to put the real stones in the concrete and then have issues down the road if they seperate.

Guy quoted me $10.00 per sq/ft to come, form, pour, stamp, pressure wash, pickup & leave.

$10,000???

I know his job will look nicer than what I can do BUT, that has me thinking that I'd be willing to live with some blemishes if I could do the job for say, $2,000....(just making up a number)

I've done it before where we needed a job done (hardwood flooring) and I bought the proper tools (pneumatic stapler), did the job and sold the tools afterwards for a net break even on the hardware. Actually, I sold the stapler for a small unexpected profit but realize that won't happen here.

I"m willing to buy a mixer and do this ourselves over several weekends. I'd MUCH rather simply buy something and use it when I can, instead of renting something and being in the "OMG" business. I would intend to sell the mixer when we're done.

If we did it this way, we would probably lay the concrete and put the actual flastones in it rather than stamping it.


1. Any thoughts on stamping verses actual flastones laid down?
2. Any thoughts on buying concrete mixer? (and where do you find them?)
3. If mixer is purchased.... used? new? (what to look for if used)

My nephew use to be in the concrete business however, he's 4 hours away so I'm not going to bother him too much about this although I might ask him for some pointers when I next talk to him.

I'm dumb enough to boldly walk into an idea like this not realizing there might be 34 pitfalls by me doing so.... OR, it might be a wonderful idea for me to do this. Ignorance is truely bliss.

Thought I'd bring this up here to bounce the idea off other folks.

 

[Richard]

I just thought of something else....

A sidewalk is going to have expansion joints in it, right? I don't know how often those are.

What if instead of us making a bonafide sidewalk and setting the flagstones in place, I make a template. In the template (say 3x5?) I could mix & pour the concrete and then set the flagstones in as we want.

After it cures, pop it out and make another...and another....

We could then, lay the sections of concrete as pices on top of some gravel, much like I've already done with our flagstone.

This would do a couple things (or so I think?)

1. Allow me to make the "tiles" as time allows
2. They'd be standard sized for the sidewalk so I could make several extras in case I ever had a problem (breakage) with one of them. The extras could easily be stored on the farm or barn.
3. Since these would be "tiles" for lack of better word, there would be more joints between them for water to seep through and drain away instead of having all the water rush to one area or another and create some pooling issues.
4. If I EVER needed under the sidewalk (phone wire I think goes under this area, and the wife is talking about adding some piping for a sprinkler system) I could merely lift up a section of the sidewalk, do the digging/work and replace it.

Might be a bone stupid idea, I don't know. I've never done this so in a sense, I'm throwing spagetti on the walls to see if any of these ideas stick as interesting.

Thoughts?

 

[txdon]

for 20 sq. ft. of concrete (4" thick) you will need 12 bags so for 1,000 sf you will need 600 - 80# bags of concrete.

In my mixer I bought at Home depot I can mix 2.5 bags at a time.

So that will be 240 mixers of concrete.

It is best to pour the bags in a wheel barrow and shovel them as you add water.

The non whimpy faster option #2 (The Harvey Lacey way) put 6 bags of concrete in a wheel barrow mixing 1/3 as you add water and shovel where you need it. Harvey can do about 80 bags in an afternoon.

 

[studor]

Why not call for a truck after you set your forms and spend your time making the pattern and adding the dies? With concrete, I am not sure why you would want to mix 80 bags in your lifetime, let alone in a day --= JMHO

 

[schmism]

Where to get decent concrete mixer?

from the ready mix company. Check your local yellow pages.

they come out with a nice hydraulic driven mixer full with up to 7 yards of concrete.

You should be able to rent stamps from a good commercial rental store. as well as collarant/mold release powder.

else forgo the stamps and just put down blue stone or feildstone etc on a bed of readymix. then the $10K for stamped product that looks almost the same would seem much more reasonable.

 

[CurlyDave]

1. I have seen molds to make your own concrete flagstone walkway. They looked like 6-8 flagstones of varying shapes, but the nice part was that they formed a pattern where any number of sets would interlock and fit next to each other. The top surface was whatever finish you wanted to put on it, and could be stamped if you so desired. The problem is that the molds were plastic and did not look very durable.

2. Mixing that much concrete by hand or even in a mixer will require the stamina of a marathon runner and the strength of a gorilla.

3. I have watched professionals stamp concrete. It came out looking very nice, but it is a young man's job. Requires lots of strength and stamina.

4. I bought a mixer from Lowes. The real secret to these things is to take some care during assembly and to use Locktite on all the nuts & bolts during assembly. My experience with the inexpensive ones is that they get loose & wobbly over time, the Locktite prevents this. For low usage such as you are contemplating, a plastic barrel is fine. And, it doesn't rust, plus stuck concrete can be removed with a hammer on the outside (take it easy with that).

 

[EddieWalker]

Concrete is one of those things that can be allot of fun to work with in small areas, or your worse nightmare on larger areas. The change from small to large happens very quickly. Besides the weight and physical aspects of working with it, getting it to look nice is a skill that only comes with experience.

Pouring a 1,000 sq ft slab with a mixer is going to take a very long time to mix it yourself in a mixer. Much longer then you have to work the concrete. If you do it in very small squares, it will look like a checker board, and look terrible. It will also move around on you unless you really do a good job of tying all the squares together and create a solid base under the pad. This sounds like the easy way to go, but for it to last over the long term, it's the most complicated.

Depending on your soil conditions, you can pour concrete right over the soil, or you have to lay down a pad of gravel so that the concrete doesn't move around on you. The place you pour needs to be flat and level. If it's not flat, you will have to pour extra concrete into the low areas to build it up so the final finish is flat and level. If this is next to a building, then you want a very gradual slope away from the house. One inch over six feet is about what I use for porches and walkways.

To keep the concrete from cracking, you need rebar. Wire works, but it's extremely dificult to keep in the middle of the pour. It's cheaper and faster to lay out, but 9 times out of ten, it's not installed properly and next to useless. Fiberglass gets allot of postive press by people who have it, but it's no replacement for rebar. Rebar is the most work, but it's the also the most proven method that works. #3 or 3/8's rebar on a two foot grid is fine for a patio not supporting a load.

1,000 square feet isn't big enough to need contraction joints. I would pour it in a single, monolithic pour. Do yourself a favor and get it delivered with a cement truck. You really don't have any other option in this. Just spreading it and getting it level is going to require several guys working their buts off for a few hours to get it right before it hardens on you.

Now here is where it gets tricky. Stamping concrete looks pretty easy, but you have a very limited amount of time to get it done before the concrete hardens. As soon as part of the pad is flat and level, somebody needs to start stamping it right away. In the jobs that I've been on where it's done, there are two or three guys with mats working on the stamping while the other guys are still spreading the mud coming off of the trucks. It's all going on at the same time to get it right. There isn't any free time here, the mud is hardening as soon as it hits the ground, and you are under the gun to get it done. If you take too long, it's over and you can't change it.

This really isn't something that you should tackle yourself. Ten bucks a foot sounds pretty high, but I don't know your area or even what it's going for around here. I do know that having a pad poured with concrete and rebar included, forms set and they do everything was around $4 a foot by a group of pros who do it every day. It used to be quite a bit cheaper then that, but materials have gone up. I'm going to have a 16x18 pad poured here next month (hopefully) and will hire it out to make sure it's done right. I've done pads that big, but it's not something that I want to do again. EVER. LOL

As for your flagstone, was it laid on a prepaired pad or just on the dirt? A do it yourselfer can have very good results by first spreading out a layer of road base gravel where you want the flagstone. Then compact it with a plate compactor. Spread a layer of sand and level out your flagstones on the sand base. The sand makes it easy to get them level and locked into place. Once the flagstones are all laid out, fill the joints with mortar. There are different types of mortar, and I forget which type is best for this. I've also seen sacks of readi mix concrete used for this and the agrigate looked real nice exposed in the joints.

You have a very nice home that you have spent allot of money on to make it something to be very proud of. Be very careful on cutting corners to save a buck on something as permanent and obvious as concrete. A good job will add value to your home, an amature job will distract from the house and be a source of frustration for as long as you have to look at it. I've taken out a few jobs like this and the homeowners always tell me that they wish they had spent the money to do it right the first time, but thought they could live with the results. They couldn't and hired me to redo it, which ends up costing them allot more money then if they had done it right the first time.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[Richard]

After the wife showing me the actual part she's talking about, it turns out it's "only" about 630 sq/ft. ($6,300 quote)

We had zero idea of any pricing and frankly, after the addition we just put on, the $3,000 fix to the AC system, the potential $19K change from heat pump to geo-thermal....

She said today "why don't we just put our flagstone back down and live with it for a while.... we can always pour the concrete later on and we already have the flagstone that was already there"

That's my girl!!



Though it did cross my mind I could probably collect my flagstone, put on a pallat and resell it to recoup some of my expenses. (it's never been cemented in, only laid on the sand base)

 

[Richard]

As for your flagstone, was it laid on a prepaired pad or just on the dirt? A do it yourselfer can have very good results by first spreading out a layer of road base gravel where you want the flagstone. Then compact it with a plate compactor. Spread a layer of sand and level out your flagstones on the sand base. The sand makes it easy to get them level and locked into place. Once the flagstones are all laid out, fill the joints with mortar. There are different types of mortar, and I forget which type is best for this. I've also seen sacks of readi mix concrete used for this and the agrigate looked real nice exposed in the joints.

Hmm.... prepared or on dirt?

I took tractor/boxblade to get the slope/flatness to the degree I could, poured 3-4 inches of "block sand" (??) or some kind of coarse sand that gets crusty/hard when it dries out and leveled it. The flagstones went on top of this with extra put in or some taken out to help level the flagstones and then we swept more of this sand between them as grout.

Unfortunately, I never put any kind of landscape cloth down so we've had a bunch of sprouts in between the flagstones. I live with a bottle of roundup so I can kill all the weeds. Not tough to stay on top of but woudl have been nice had I thought to put some cloth down under it.

I might add just for kicks, the wife also wanted a patio done that is away from the house. Sort of like for an outdoor party if she ever wanted. I busted my butt, to get this done in time for our wedding (on our back patio)

don't you know that we didn't use this extra patio during our wedding night AND, several weeks later...she decided she didn't really like it and would I pull it all up and take this area back to grass....

Of course, I got it done but I'm still left scratchign my head on how she doesn't quite understand when you are talking 10/15 tons of stone...how I might not really WANT to deal with putting it all down and then lifting it all back up on a whim!!

Gotta love these women at times.

 

[AlanB]

To answer your original question, Harbor Freight has a decent mixer at a great price. About $185 on sale with coupon. We have used ours about 3 years and the motor just gave up last month. For the money, it is hard to beat the Chinese stuff. Just hate to keep sending them my money, but there is nothing else even close to that price american made.

For the patio, $10 square foot sounds about reasonable to me. We get about 15 for Flagstone patio's etc.

As Eddie has already stated, you should be able to do a flagstone, or paver patio yourself quite well. From your description I would say you have too much sand, and not enough base.

I would reccomend 6" or "crusher run", Road Base, DGA or Dense grade aggregate, or whatever your stone mine calls it.

For uniform paving stones (pavers or flat and uniform natural stone)

Then we use what in this area is called gravel sand, or fines, or Gravel dust, instead of sand, the ants and plants do not like it nearly as much.

Finally in the top or grouting layer we have had good success with "pavelock" sand which is basicly sand with a water activated glue mixed in to help lock everything in place. The glue is also available to add to your own sand but our local supplier keeps it on hand in bags ready to go which is nice for us.

If we are laying a natural stone patio, (natural irreqular bottoms) last couple years we lay them in a mortar bed wet, same 6" crusher run base, then a heavy inch of mortar depending on the stone and squish it in. Saves a lot of time for us instead of trying to adjust the sand or stone for the the irregular pavers to fit.

When you use Mortar with stone, you need the high strength Mortar, cannot remember if it is N or S, but the high strength one (or just add a bit of extra cement to the standard)

Mixing concrete is no fun (or mortar) and my experience is that it costs as much as buying it in the truck and takes a whole lot more time and work.

We have not done the stampcrete thing yet, but were talking about it last week. It does provide a pretty nice result for less cost. It is not a project I would want to take on as a DIY and I am a guy that believes in doing darn near everything myself. (except drywall )

Good luck whichever way you go.