Dave1949, I like your idea. I could setup a laser level on one of the stakes and adjust the shot with the compass. Then, set a marker as far as I could get, then setup there and move on until I get to the other stake. Then, maybe do that a couple of times, like you said, and average out any errors.
How to figure out property line over hills/woods
- Thread starter Josephm
- Start date
OK, I think I have come up with an optimal plan sitting here thinking after reading all these posts.
Since the 10' flat part between the river bank and the gully is the highest point, I need to target getting a reference stake there.
Here is my idea:
1.) Setup a laser level at the 1st stake on the flat land on the other side of the gully. Shoot the survey bearing with the good compass up to the 10' area and mark it with a stake.
2.) Go down to the stake at the river and shoot the bearing backwards up to that 10' area and mark it with another stake.
3.) Split the distance between the 2 stakes and reshoot from both locations and see if I can hit the new "middle/averaged" stake from both the flat area and from the river bank.
4.) Maybe have to do several iterations to get it dead-on?
Seems like this should get me pretty close.
Any inputs on this idea would be greatly appreciated.
Joseph
Since the 10' flat part between the river bank and the gully is the highest point, I need to target getting a reference stake there.
Here is my idea:
1.) Setup a laser level at the 1st stake on the flat land on the other side of the gully. Shoot the survey bearing with the good compass up to the 10' area and mark it with a stake.
2.) Go down to the stake at the river and shoot the bearing backwards up to that 10' area and mark it with another stake.
3.) Split the distance between the 2 stakes and reshoot from both locations and see if I can hit the new "middle/averaged" stake from both the flat area and from the river bank.
4.) Maybe have to do several iterations to get it dead-on?
Seems like this should get me pretty close.
Any inputs on this idea would be greatly appreciated.
Joseph
dave1949
Super Star Member
That sounds like a plan. If you have a builder's transit that rotates and the degrees are marked, and that property line is straight. You might be able to get in position on that 10' wide bench and sight in both directions by turning the transit exactly 180 deg.
I know the surveyors around here do a lot of bush whacking and approximate ribbon ties before they are sure they have the actual line. We have up and down heavily wooded terrain here too.
Dave.
I know the surveyors around here do a lot of bush whacking and approximate ribbon ties before they are sure they have the actual line. We have up and down heavily wooded terrain here too.
Dave.
Egon
Epic Contributor
What declination will you set your compass to?
You must have had a different survey instructor. We actually were taught to use front AND backsights, then average.
However, the old timer I used to work with taught me differently. Because I sight on a known point on the line, and each ribbon is tied as close to the line as possible I can get good accuracy.
If you are sighting forward you aren't dead on line; the tree or landmark may or may not be dead on; so you are adding 2 potential errors for each sighting.
No, it's not total station quality; I can only get as good as the tool; but for timberland applications I'm pretty close.
dodge man
Super Star Member
Joesphm, your last plan sounds the best. If you were using a surveyors total station, its called "wiggling in". You basically set the instrument up, sight one corner, then turn 180 degress and see how much you miss the other corner. Then you move the gun and do it again until you hit it right on the money. You don't have that long of a line so you may have pretty good luck with the compass and practice with it some.
I'd probably tell you to stay away from using lasers, the problem being how do you get two lasers to line up and shoot a straght line. Maybe some of the ones used for home building have that ability but then how do you aim it up and down and hold a line. The range may be limited also, but if they had the range it might be a good check.
The way a surveyor would do it is set up a total station at a random point somewhere in the middle, shoot both corners and them calculate points on the line. We have a hand held computer called a data collector that allows for these calculations without alot of thought on the operators part. The random point can be anywhere, it doesn't have to be on the line. If it takes more then one random point, its called a traverse and I have done surveys that have several traverse points to complete a survey.
To give you an idea of cost, we charge about $120 an hour for me and a helper and I am a licensed land surveyor. The job you describe would maybe take as little as an hour once you got to the job site and set up. We charge for travel time and you might have to hike into the job site. If it was close to the surveyors office it might be as cheap as $200-$300. If there was some travel time, it could easiely get into $600-800. This is all assuming that I was the one that did the original survey. If I did the work all the points I set would be within 1 inch of the line.
The answer I should tell you is to hire a proffesional to do the work, but I have seen alot of people try much harder surveying tasks than you are talking about.
Fence builders probably have some good ideas on how to handle the problem also. I know they use string lines where possible.
Good luck and I hope this info helps.
I'd probably tell you to stay away from using lasers, the problem being how do you get two lasers to line up and shoot a straght line. Maybe some of the ones used for home building have that ability but then how do you aim it up and down and hold a line. The range may be limited also, but if they had the range it might be a good check.
The way a surveyor would do it is set up a total station at a random point somewhere in the middle, shoot both corners and them calculate points on the line. We have a hand held computer called a data collector that allows for these calculations without alot of thought on the operators part. The random point can be anywhere, it doesn't have to be on the line. If it takes more then one random point, its called a traverse and I have done surveys that have several traverse points to complete a survey.
To give you an idea of cost, we charge about $120 an hour for me and a helper and I am a licensed land surveyor. The job you describe would maybe take as little as an hour once you got to the job site and set up. We charge for travel time and you might have to hike into the job site. If it was close to the surveyors office it might be as cheap as $200-$300. If there was some travel time, it could easiely get into $600-800. This is all assuming that I was the one that did the original survey. If I did the work all the points I set would be within 1 inch of the line.
The answer I should tell you is to hire a proffesional to do the work, but I have seen alot of people try much harder surveying tasks than you are talking about.
Fence builders probably have some good ideas on how to handle the problem also. I know they use string lines where possible.
Good luck and I hope this info helps.
If he's buying a "Suunto" it won't be adjustable.He can go to Noaa and find out the difference between now and the date of the survey, though.What declination will you set your compass to?
dodge man
Super Star Member
I'll say it again, the plat may or may not say what the basis of bearings are. DO NOT count on a compass giving you the same bearing as the plat.
caver
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If you are surveying at night and using a headlamp,,,it can throw your compass off. When I cave survey, I use something like a Suunto KB14. I always remove my helmet and lamp and hold it about 12" away as it will cause error in the compass.
All thanks for the replies. I really appreciate the help!
Dodge man - I will take note about the bearings on the survey possibly not matching the compass bearings. One thing I do have going for me is that 2000' stretch (open, flat pasture) that (according to the survey) lies in the exact bearing with the other stretch I need to figure out. So, I think if I practice on that 2000' section that is out in the open, I can figure out any descrepancies with between the compass bearing and the survey. Then, I can account for that on the compass setting.
As for declination, the compass I am planning to buy is supposedly declination adjustable, so I think I should be good.
Thanks again for all the help!
Joseph
Dodge man - I will take note about the bearings on the survey possibly not matching the compass bearings. One thing I do have going for me is that 2000' stretch (open, flat pasture) that (according to the survey) lies in the exact bearing with the other stretch I need to figure out. So, I think if I practice on that 2000' section that is out in the open, I can figure out any descrepancies with between the compass bearing and the survey. Then, I can account for that on the compass setting.
As for declination, the compass I am planning to buy is supposedly declination adjustable, so I think I should be good.
Thanks again for all the help!
Joseph