Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 2345678 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 86
  1. #41
    Super Star Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    11,496
    Location
    Upper Midwest USA
    Tractor
    JD 4300, JD X485 JD 4x2 Gator, JD 425, JD455

    Default Re: How to figure out property line over hills/woods

    Stright line, horizontal, or level footage should be all that is shown. Can't gain ground going up and down hills.

  2. #42
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    980
    Location
    Oregon
    Tractor
    JD 770, Yanmar 180D, JD 420 (not running), had a Kubota B6200

    Default Re: How to figure out property line over hills/woods

    Joseph,

    Good question. I should have discussed that. Distances are always horizontal distances.

    You measure the slope from the scale on the side of the transit and may need a hand lens to read it accurately. My memory says the slope is shown in degrees; in forestry we used percent slope. I'll assume the transit lists slope in degrees; if it is in percent, maybe someone will correct me and I'll discuss how to convert slopes in percent to horizontal distance.

    The simplest thing to do if the slope isn't very steep is to hold the tape horizontal.

    If it's too steep to hold the tape horizontal, it gets complicated. In forestry school we had slope reduction tables we could refer to that converted slope distance to horizontal distance. I can't seem to find slope reduction tables online.

    You have to use trig. If you wrestled thru math, fear not, I'll walk you thru it; it isn't hard. You just need a scientific calculator, one with sines, cosines and tangents, although you will only use the cosine function, shown as "cos" on the calculator.

    1. Measure the slope angle.
    2. Measure the slope distance.
    3. Enter the slope angle in the calculator.
    4. Hit the cosine key.
    5. Hit the asterisk (*) key, then enter the slope distance.
    6. Hit the = sign and you get your answer. If you did it right, the answer will always be smaller than the slope distance.

    For a 10 degree slope, you should enter 10, then cosine key gives you .9848..., then hit *, then 100, then = and you get 98.48, which is your horizontal distance.

    15 degree slope, 150 feet, you get 144.888 feet horizontal distance. Easy, isn't it?

    No calculator? Windows has a calculator function. Go to "Start" in the lower left corner, click on "All Programs", then "Accessories" and you'll find the calculator function. When you bring that up and go to "View" and click on "Scientific", you will get all the trig functions.

  3. #43
    Silver Member survriggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    103
    Location
    Missouri Ozarks
    Tractor
    Kubota B7800

    Default Re: How to figure out property line over hills/woods

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge man View Post
    I think I can picture it. Joesph, picture a tripod with a wire hanging below it. Than take the string line you want for your line and hang it from the wire below the tripod. This would allow it to hang free and give you the correct line. The problem is, if you have a 30' high hill, your tripod would have to be 30 feet high. At least thats my take on his idea, and it would work in theory if you can build the string line high enough.
    Hang in there Dodge Man!!! Good advice! I'm also a licensed surveyor and I've tried to explain to landowners how to mark a straight line over a hill. If they don't mind that it could be several feet off in the middle they can use some of the methods described here. Although I've had some cases where someone sees his neighbor marking the line himself and is immediately suspect of the line location because it was not marked by a disinterested party "a surveyor". He thinks his neighbor is 'fudging' to his own advantage. This is a good discussion and I enjoy reading something that pertains to my profession.

    Ralph

  4. #44
    Platinum Member Steve C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    637
    Location
    North Central Michigan
    Tractor
    Farm Pro 2425

    Default Re: How to figure out property line over hills/woods

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Joseph,

    Good question. I should have discussed that. Distances are always horizontal distances.

    You measure the slope from the scale on the side of the transit and may need a hand lens to read it accurately. My memory says the slope is shown in degrees; in forestry we used percent slope. I'll assume the transit lists slope in degrees; if it is in percent, maybe someone will correct me and I'll discuss how to convert slopes in percent to horizontal distance.

    The simplest thing to do if the slope isn't very steep is to hold the tape horizontal.

    If it's too steep to hold the tape horizontal, it gets complicated. In forestry school we had slope reduction tables we could refer to that converted slope distance to horizontal distance. I can't seem to find slope reduction tables online.

    You have to use trig. If you wrestled thru math, fear not, I'll walk you thru it; it isn't hard. You just need a scientific calculator, one with sines, cosines and tangents, although you will only use the cosine function, shown as "cos" on the calculator.

    1. Measure the slope angle.
    2. Measure the slope distance.
    3. Enter the slope angle in the calculator.
    4. Hit the cosine key.
    5. Hit the asterisk (*) key, then enter the slope distance.
    6. Hit the = sign and you get your answer. If you did it right, the answer will always be smaller than the slope distance.

    For a 10 degree slope, you should enter 10, then cosine key gives you .9848..., then hit *, then 100, then = and you get 98.48, which is your horizontal distance.

    15 degree slope, 150 feet, you get 144.888 feet horizontal distance. Easy, isn't it?

    No calculator? Windows has a calculator function. Go to "Start" in the lower left corner, click on "All Programs", then "Accessories" and you'll find the calculator function. When you bring that up and go to "View" and click on "Scientific", you will get all the trig functions.
    yes it is easy if you like math, it is good advice but the origional poster has his corners marked so it don't matter to him. He just needs to get from one to another in a straight line. He doesn't have to worry about the distance.
    Craftsman GT 18
    Craftsman GT 18.5
    Craftsman GT 22
    Swisher 2660
    Farmpro 2425

  5. #45
    Platinum Member Steve C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    637
    Location
    North Central Michigan
    Tractor
    Farm Pro 2425

    Default Re: How to figure out property line over hills/woods

    Quote Originally Posted by survriggs View Post
    Hang in there Dodge Man!!! Good advice! I'm also a licensed surveyor and I've tried to explain to landowners how to mark a straight line over a hill. If they don't mind that it could be several feet off in the middle they can use some of the methods described here. Although I've had some cases where someone sees his neighbor marking the line himself and is immediately suspect of the line location because it was not marked by a disinterested party "a surveyor". He thinks his neighbor is 'fudging' to his own advantage. This is a good discussion and I enjoy reading something that pertains to my profession.

    Ralph
    O.K. mister surveyor do you want to let us in on your trade secrets?

    You have stated that you have tried to explain to landowners how to mark a straight line over a hill. I don't see you doing that here. We are all ears. Am I missing something?

    Would you please tell us? Has the GPS system made your job any easier? Have you reduced your hourly rate to reflect the advantages of technology or does the company you work for just add the increased production capacity to their profits? Can you plot a line that is straighter than a laser?

    We are just a bunch of dumb farmers trying to get by. We all want to know.
    We have paid to have our property corners marked, that is the hard part. Please tell us how to connect the dots without going broke.
    Craftsman GT 18
    Craftsman GT 18.5
    Craftsman GT 22
    Swisher 2660
    Farmpro 2425

  6. #46
    Super Member bp fick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    5,414
    Location
    Beaver Creek, Northern Michigan
    Tractor
    Kubota BX2360

    Default Re: How to figure out property line over hills/woods

    While I appreciate saving money, am supportive of the "do it yourself philosophy" and the desires to just mark "close enough" boundaries, and while that is all the OP stated as his desire, in the end, only a registered land surveyor (RLS) can certify the results on legal documents and provide the basis of any dispute resolution.

    If not on this occasion, at some time in the future, as monies permit, a boundary survey on one's property is in order. When we took possession of our property last spring, it was one of the first things we did. Turns out, all was in order, but we did stake the north boundary every 50' with flags and it resolved some slight misunderstandings with the neighbors on that side. Fencing isn't cheap and it seems like it should be installed on one's own property, not on someone else's. You might get a RLS, who works for a larger firm, to do the work "on the side" for fairly reasonable.

    Our's only cost us lunch. My son is a registered land surveyor.
    Oh, yea, I forgot the cost of tuition at Ferris State University!!!
    BP


    "Some chickens, some gardens and a Kubota."

  7. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: How to figure out property line over hills/woods

    Hi Survriggs, I would also be interested if you have another method to share.

    Thanks,
    Joseph

  8. #48
    Super Member bp fick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    5,414
    Location
    Beaver Creek, Northern Michigan
    Tractor
    Kubota BX2360

    Default Re: How to figure out property line over hills/woods

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
    O.K. mister surveyor do you want to let us in on your trade secrets?

    You have stated that you have tried to explain to landowners how to mark a straight line over a hill. I don't see you doing that here. We are all ears. Am I missing something?

    Would you please tell us? Has the GPS system made your job any easier? Have you reduced your hourly rate to reflect the advantages of technology or does the company you work for just add the increased production capacity to their profits? Can you plot a line that is straighter than a laser?

    We are just a bunch of dumb farmers trying to get by. We all want to know.
    We have paid to have our property corners marked, that is the hard part. Please tell us how to connect the dots without going broke.
    Hey Steve, why the sarcasm? Having a bad day, there buddy? We all do but attract more bees with honey than vinegar.
    Just sayin'.
    BP


    "Some chickens, some gardens and a Kubota."

  9. #49
    Super Member dave1949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    9,015
    Location
    Industry, Maine
    Tractor
    New Holland TC40

    Default Re: How to figure out property line over hills/woods

    Quote Originally Posted by bp fick View Post
    While I appreciate saving money, am supportive of the "do it yourself philosophy" and the desires to just mark "close enough" boundaries, and while that is all the OP stated as his desire, in the end, only a registered land surveyor (RLS) can certify the results on legal documents and provide the basis of any dispute resolution.


    Our's only cost us lunch. My son is a registered land surveyor.
    Oh, yea, I forgot the cost of tuition at Ferris State University!!!
    LOL on the surveyor. I have zero ROI on my tuition fees, you are lucky

    This makes sense to me. When we bought our lot, I asked the seller to split the cost of a complete survey, which he did. There are pins at all corners and kinks, plus the surveyors blazed the trees on the line. The closing was on hold until the survey was done and we had a chance to walk the lines.

    The land had been through lots of divisions, there was a 16 acre piece that was deeded over to the adjacent landowner to compensate for timber trespassing, a small stream runs across the back which I wanted to know if it was inside the boundaries or not. Just a lot of issues that I wanted to forget about with a new survey which gets registered at the county office.

    I just refreshed the blazes this fall using Nelson forestry paint in the spray cans. I don't plan on fencing or building anywhere near my lines, but I think it is important to keep them marked and to know where they are for sure.

    It also makes it easier to re-sell land, should that ever be needed, if you can point to well marked boundaries.

    Dave.
    "Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end ..."

  10. #50
    Elite Member dodge man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,480
    Location
    West central Illinois
    Tractor
    Kubota BX2350

    Default Re: How to figure out property line over hills/woods

    Okay, being a PLS, I'll let you in on my trade secrets, 4 years of college and 25 years experience. You guys are kind of freaking me out now. Advice is flying all over the place, some of which if good and some not so good.

    First off, GPS is great in the open, not worth a darn in the woods. Like somone else said, the cosumer grade stuff will get you close, but not close enough and it doesn't work as well in the trees either.

    The lasers aren't a bad idea, but how do you know the one laser is shooting straight up in the air? And I don't mean sorta close, but exactly. A carpteners level is not good enough to determine if it is plumb.

    Yes, distances are measured horizontally, as if the world is flat.

    The real trade secret is in the math, which is all done by hand held data collectors now. For example take a lot in town. Imagine a line 100' long with corners on both ends but a large tree in the middle. You set a new point at a random location about halfway between the two corners but roughly 30' off the line. From this new point you can see both corners, you measure the angle between the two corners and the distances from your new point to the two corners. You can then do the math and set points on the boundary line at any location you want from this random point. The math in the past was pretty time consuming, even with calculators, but with hand held computers, its very fast. The cost of the equimpment I just described would be around $10,000. You need a total station(a modern transit), which measures the distances electronically, prisims, which are refelectors, and a hand held computer. Then you need the knowledge in how to use it. In my above example if the line is say 3000' long, it takes multiple random points and alot more work to calculate points on the line.

    The best advice from above is to hire a proffesional to do it. It could be done with a transit, but the problem is in the knowledge on how to use it. Someone described running a random line above, this would also work if done correctly. In one of my above posts, I described wiggiling in on the line with a transit, this would be the best method. The problem with doing it yourself is how do you know you are correct? Thats something you gain with experience.

    The bottom line is I have perfromed hundreds of boundary surveys, several of which are on hilly wooded ground. I have located fences along boundaries that are one half mile apart(a quarter section line). It is not unusual to see these fences several feet off. I'm sure alot of these fences were put in using some of the above described methods by do it yourselfers. As a land owner, you have the right to do this yourself, it up to you to determine your comfort level. If the land is not very vaulable, and your adjoiner is O.K. with you doing it yourself, have at it. Otherwise hire a proffesional.

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 2345678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
© 2013 TractorByNet.com. TractorByNet is a registered trademark of IMC Digital Universe, Inc. Other trademarks on this page are the property of their respective owners.