Home Builder Negotiation Questions

   / Home Builder Negotiation Questions #1  

rgood

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Aug 8, 2007
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Location
FL panhandle
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Yanmar 2210D
Guys, I have not yet started negotiating to have a home built, but I want to understand some things and get some ideas from you before I start.

1. When people say a house costs $135 a square foot to build, what all is included in that price. It probably varies from builder to builder, and I'm sure whatever it includes is in a contract. But, does it normally include a septic tank, water hook up, electric hook-up etc or are those "Extra costs"?


2. I want my builder to do most all of the work, but I figure I could negotiate with Lowes or someone for carpet installation and I could do the interior woodwork myself and I might do the tiling of floors. I'm guessing that builders like to do all of the work, because they can utilize their own subcontractors etc and more work is more money. So If I say I will do this, this and this by myself, but I will give them the opportunity to bid the whole thing, my concern then is that they will inflate the main price and say, "Well you only save X amount by us not doing the whole job."

Any insight into how to handle this?


I'm anticipating many people might reply "Just have 3 different builders bid the job" But we are located in the sticks and I'll be lucky if I can get one guy to bid the job.

Thanks
 
   / Home Builder Negotiation Questions #2  
Communication between you and builder extremely important.Have known
people just not ask example what grade carpet or what is in the contract.I
would hope your builder would itemize everything with prices.So you can make
the decisions that is best for you. Ask up front his fee percentage if you want to
take on some of building trades work. Ask about subcontractors he will be using. Check the company and quality of work yourself and if new sub is
hired you need to give OK before. Many builders relationships with homeowners go south because of bad work or unreliable subs. Very few builders do all the work themselves anymore. Most people find it stressful building a new home put if you get everything out up front it can be very
good experience. Good luck to you keep us posted how its going. Framer
 
   / Home Builder Negotiation Questions #3  
If you wana know how much contractors make, the cheapest bid my oldest Daughter could get for her house was 200,000. I redesigned it (made living space bigger) and built what she wanted for 150,000. I charged $20 hour and any help $10 :thumbsup::D;):confused2:
 
   / Home Builder Negotiation Questions #4  
Typically when you want to do things yourself the builder will give you an "allowance". This allowance is almost never the amount that it will cost you to do the particular phase yourself.

Negotiate a contract with your builder, but don't sign it. Take it to a trusted lawyer to review.
 
   / Home Builder Negotiation Questions #5  
As a northern builder for 20+years. ASK THE QUESTION! You'll need to set up a good relationship between you an the builder. Ask around for local builders. Ask the building inspector (most will talk off the record)about a builder that does most of the work himself, an is on the job with his guys.the more subs on the job the more problems you can end up with, one reason is if the subs don't get paid they can put a lean on YOUR,YOUR,new home.Always,always,always stay ahead of builder as far as paying for stuff.
Before you sign anything ask to see his work. Talk to people he has worked for.Then ask the building inspector if that's who did the work:)
You can always hire a "job oversee-er"I have done several of these an it takes alot of the load off you. You pay him a set fee for the visit to the job. or some get a % of the work he check's on.
Feel free to give me a call ill help in any way i can. for a cup of coffee. I don't do anything for $$$ers any more.
Army Grunt
11b40@bellsouth.net
 
   / Home Builder Negotiation Questions #6  
Wingrider you are missing a few key points.

First, was your help covered by Worker's Comp and a liability policy? Were they paid on the books or by cash? I'm a builder and my comp and liability add up to about 25% of what I pay in wages. Add in the associated costs of putting an employee on the books with Social Security, payroll tax, unemployment insurance etc...

Second, you make it sound like builders are getting rich. Nobody around here is, myself included. Should they do it for free or is it OK for them to make enough money to feed the kids?

Most of my work is done on a cost plus arrangement. I give the owner a detailed cost estimate based on the plans. I bill them my discounted cost for materials and subcontractors, and a fixed hourly labor rate. I then add 10% at the bottom of the invoice. The 10% covers my profit and overhead. If the project exceeds the estimated cost I suspend the 10%, basically working for free to finish the job.

This has proven to be a fair system for both parties over the 15 years I've been in business. Neither the owner or builder are at any risk and the owner knows exactly how much I will make on the project.

Communication and trust are the keys to successful construction projects. I do mostly high end custom homes and renovations. Many of them are second homes and the owners are not around much during construction. Typically I'm in touch with them almost daily, on the phone or emailing progress pictures.

My advice is to find a builder you like and have an open honest conversation about your expectations. Ask him what his profit will be and how he marks up materials and labor. If he won't look you in the eye and give you straight answers find someone who will.
 
   / Home Builder Negotiation Questions #7  
Before I interviewed builders I drove around looking at houses under construction with builder sign out front. That told me a lot about how they did things and materials used etc. I asked at the bank for a list of builders in good standing with them and recommendations from the loan officer. We spent about 3 years designing the house, materials we wanted, stone pattern, flooring, cabinets, etc. We did our best to have all the decisions made before we even hired anyone. We had a couple of 3 ring binders full of pictures and drawings. We had a large plastic storage tub full of materials samples. In short we made sure we were ready ...THEN we started looking for builders. We also went online with the county and looked up addresses and names of people the builders had done work for and cold called the clients. (Public records show mechanic lien contracts filed). We narrowed down the number of builders we would consider to 4 then interviewed them and got bids from 3. One pissed me off right off the bat by refusing to even look at our samples. He figured his materials would be fine. -- maybe - but his attitude wasn't. We took all our stuff to the interviews so they knew exactly what we wanted and what to bid on. No surprises from either side. The only glitches we've had so far has had nothing to do with the builder. (We picked out bathroom tile but 2 years later when we were ready for it - it was discontinued) ... there have been small things like that -- but the builder has been great. We're also out in the boonies. Builder has been supplying maps to his subs and he put up lots of signs on the roads coming out here. Someone mentioned that our realtor must have been an indian guide.:D
 
   / Home Builder Negotiation Questions #8  
Firstly, without a design and detailed spec. all you'll get is a rough rule of thumb on cost, no more.

Lots of factors impact on cost - the geometry of the building, how much articulation the facade has, how many windows and their size, whether you're building on flat ground or a slope, is the building single storey, two storey or more, the quality of materials, fixtures and fittings, etc. Normally I wouldn't include a septic system, road access, etc. into a rule of thumb for cost but some builders might.

Guidance I give my clients is anything from 200 - 500 is a reasonable range but we've one contract on the books at the moment that is costing over $1,000/sq.ft.

First step in the process is to prepare a BRIEF. Regard this as a wish list and a written description of what you want. You can prepare it with your family and it will help you crystallize your thoughts on what you want the building to be. I can send you a model brief I give clients with some questions and answers but the brief is very important - it's purpose is to define the questions to which the building design is the answer.

On military projects, the brief for a building is incredibly detailed and can run to several volumes - these guys really define what they want - but on a house it need be only 4 or so pages. Once we have the brief, I ask my clients to sign it because that's what I use as the basis for preparing the design. If the client asks for changes as we progress, I update the brief to reflect those changes.

Some of the questions the brief will ask: how many rooms, how big, open plan or cellular design, do you have a preference for one or two storeys (or more), what image, appearance and quality do you have in mind, is there likely to be a need for future expansion, what type of heating system, any fireplaces and if so, what sort, any need for a/c, etc.

Once you have the brief fleshed out, that's the time to begin the design. Begin the design without a brief and you can waste a lot of time preparing drawings that reveal what you don't want. With a good brief, the design needn't take long. With the design AND a specification, it's possible to prepare a detailed cost plan.

Cost plus contracts are one way to go but I'm wary of them. I've worked on cost plus contracts and they can abused. I built five military airbases in the middle east on cost plus 14%. Where one filing clerkess would have been enough for the office, we had five. I shared a five bed villa with one other guy and we had two house boys and a cook, all cost plus. I'm not saying all contracts are like this, they're obviously not, but generally cost plus gives no incentive to the builder to shop around on your behalf for best price materials or components. The more the job costs you, the more he makes. Rather than cost plus, I prefer a fixed fee, negotiated before the contract is signed but for a known design and specification. With a fixed fee the builder has no incentive to drive the cost up but gets a fair profit for his efforts. That's how we work. The fixed fee doesn't include managing a lot of changes. It will accommodate some but if during the works I'm involve in a lot of extra work moving walls, windows, adding features and fixtures here and there, the fee will adjusted to reflect the additional work. That's only fair.

As others have advised, getting the right builder is key. Good idea by army grunt to speak to the local building inspector. They have their finger on the pulse and will normally give you a list of three or four good contractors you can approach. Ask builders for references, speak to previous clients, go visit some houses. Most people are really proud of their buildings and will gladly show you around. Ask them about problems during construction, how was cost managed, was the building delivered on time, what were the problems along the way, what were the post construction defects that arose and did the builder attend to them in good time?

A good builder can save a lot of money on small items if he shops around for best prices. We get competitive quotes for all materials and components and over the lifetime of a job, that $50 saving here and $60 there will add up to thousands of dollars. So make sure your builder has a cost management policy in place and ask him for details of how he implements it. If he looks blank, he hasn't got one.

Last point, buildings are like anything else - you get what you pay for. We can't build silk purses for the price of sow's ears. When I'm faced with clients who have unreasonable expectations and think I can, I ask them what car they came in. When they tell me its an Audi or a BMW I ask if they got it for the price of a Pontiac, because that's what they're asking me to do in building terms. If they want their building to be a Merc, that's what they have to pay for, although I'll build them a Chrysler if that's what they want. I'll get them best value for that Chrysler but pulling rabbits our of hats isn't part of the service.
 
   / Home Builder Negotiation Questions #9  
If you wana know how much contractors make, the cheapest bid my oldest Daughter could get for her house was 200,000. I redesigned it (made living space bigger) and built what she wanted for 150,000. I charged $20 hour and any help $10 :thumbsup::D;):confused2:

I hope these guys at $10/hour don't have families to feed or any necessities like rent, insurance, vehicles, gasoline, etc.
 
   / Home Builder Negotiation Questions #10  
I just started a house in Arkansas without a GC. Without a GC I have bids on every part of the house. I expect to complete the house for less than $90 a sqaure foot including low E windows, SIP panels, brick, granite countertops, custom cabinets, hardwood floors, builders risk insurance, etc.
 
 
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