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  1. #1
    Elite Member Richard's Avatar
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    Apr 2000
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    Knoxville, TN
    Tractor
    Fullsized JCB Loader/Backhoe

    Default Battery

    Wife bought 4 new tires at Tire America... (I think that was name... the place Sears owns).

    After purchase, she got a coupon for a new Diehard battery, something like up to a 50 or 60 $$ value. Does NOT have to go on "her' car...

    Brutus needs a battery.

    After talking to the dude at the store, he says they do not have a "car" battery that will work..fine, however, they can order in a 1,000 cca battery for me that is either for trucks or "heavy" heavy duty... (Brutus needs minimum 750 cca, but am currently utilizing the BRAND new battery we had in boat which is smaller than 750)

    Anyway..

    Called store back to double check "value" of coupon and got different sales guy who is saying that I should NOT use ANY of their batterys (even the 1,000 cca) as they are not made for this type machinery and the vibrations that Brutus will dish out will prematurely wear out the plates inside the battery. They could only sell a battery like that with no warranty because of the use. He further said I need to go to the dealer and get a "dealer" battery.

    Though I can't dispute the vibrations that Brutus will dish out, the demeanor of his voice struck me as "I don't want to help you, I don't want to lift a finger to find this 1,000 cca battery in my book, I don't want to see you benefit from this coupon"

    I may certainly be wrong, maybe he was absolutely right in what he said... I was in retail sales once, and did not shy away from trying to tell someone the "harsh reality" when they were selecting what I felt to be a piece of junk (as evidenced by the items high return rate) and essentially told them I'd rather sell them nothing as to see them have issues, or preferably, have them upgrade to a better brand. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    He MIGHT have just been honest, however, he had no "better brand" idea for me.. just tried to kill the thought of my sale and get off phone.

    Soooo....

    I have to believe that Diehard makes all types of batteries. I'm not against going to dealer for "their" battery, but who is to say that it's not made by same folks that make Diehard? [img]/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif[/img].

    I like the idea of saving $50/60 and if the 1,000 cca battery will suffice, I kind of like the idea of buying it for 30/40 out of pocket.

    What say the brain trust on "vibrations causing premature battery failure"??

    Thanks & Happy/safe holidays to all

    Richard

  2. #2
    Super Member JerryG's Avatar
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    Apr 2000
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    7,171
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas
    Tractor
    MF 1440-4 PowerShuttle

    Default Re: Battery

    Richard,
    I thought that Sears use to have a group of batteries for heavy duty use. Did the book not show them or did the sales people not look for you? They do have the Optima style batteries that would work well.

  3. #3
    Elite Member
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    Apr 2000
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    3,741
    Location
    Stowe, Vermont
    Tractor
    Kubota L3240HST, KX-121-3S

    Default Re: Battery

    Richard -- Ditto on the Optima; my local Sears carries them and they are very highly regarded. As for the vibration, I bought a DieHard battery for my ATV through Sears, and if ever there was a four wheeled device designed to vibrate a battery that would be the one. just my $0.02.

    Pete

  4. #4
    Super Star Member Egon's Avatar
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    Aug 2001
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    17,311
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada

    Default Re: Battery

    Battery types.
    Somewhere I recall reading there are only three manufacture's in the US but who makes what or how the construction is specified by the distributor was not mentioned. Just some useless trivia.

    Diehards have always servrd me well.

    Egon

  5. #5
    Gold Member
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    Jan 2002
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    432
    Location
    Lampasas, Texas
    Tractor
    JD 4700

    Default Re: Battery

    Richard, I had similar experience(s) with Sears in trying to buy a Diehard battery for my Corvette. They would only talk to you when you gave them the make and model of the car and then they told me that they did not make a battery for the Corvette and that I could not buy a battery from them to put in it because it would be a safety hazzard. Basically they refused to sell me a battery period. I tried several different stores and got the same response. The safety hazzard was supposedly that since the battery is inside the drivers compartment it has to have a vent hose to the outside of the car to keep hydrogen gas from building up in the car. This is BS because the car came from GM with a non-vented Delco battery and I have had non-vented batteries in it for over 30 years now. I think they must have been sued or had a lawyer tell them that they could be sued back in the 60's. Anyway that is one of the reasons that I stopped shopping at Sears many, many years ago. I don't think you would have a vibration problem with a diehard battery as long as it is not a side post battery. The side post batteries are notorious for breaking the post internally due to vibration. This is not unique to Diehard. The Corvette uses a sidepost battery and when they replaced the hard rubber cases with the cheap plastic, I could not get a battery to last more than two years no matter what I paid for it so I started buying the cheapest batteries they made since they provided the same 18-24 month life. Now they make the batteries with combination side posts and top posts. This has seemed to solve the vibration problem.

    If you want to get the free Diehard battery from Sears you will have to find a make and model of car that the one you want goes in and tell them it is for that car otherwise they will give you a battery to go in your tractor.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member
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    Default Re: Battery

    <font color=blue>"vibrations causing premature battery failure"</font color=blue>
    In general flooded cell batteries are more prone to failure than sealed (gel) batteries in a vibration environment. Also in general, sealed (gel) batteries have lower CCA ratings than flooded batteries. Optima (sealed) battery CCA ratings are comparable to flooded cell batteries. The Optima Red in the 75/35 case size has a CCA rating of 720 amps. The reserve capacity of 44AH is significantly less than a similar flooded cell battery. Don made an excellent point on side mount terminals, in addition shy away from the "dual terminal" top mount designs where the screw terminal is not integral with the stud (Excide gold for example). The cost differential (COSTCO) of the Optima Red vs an equivalent flooded cell with similar CCA is about twice. The Optima web site states "see dealer for warrenty". It does tout it use in high vibration applications. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://"vibrations causing premature battery failure">Optima</A>

    I don't think Brutus would beat a battery around any more than than a country road does to my truck battery.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
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    232
    Location
    NE Texas
    Tractor
    Kubota L35 TLB, John Deere 550 dozer, Cat D-2 dozer, Allis Chalmers HD-11 dozer

    Default Re: Battery

    There are a couple of reasons you might want to go with the correct battery for your tractor. One is cycle time between recharging. Tractor batteries are deep cycle batteries. They are designed to tolerate sitting for extended periods without damaging their plates from sulfation. Automotive batteries are not. The salesman may of been reluctant to sell the battery cause he figured you'd be bringing it back in a year or so for warranty.

    Another aspect to consider is that CCA is only one measure of battery performance. Often times the batteries that are advertised with a high CCA have a relatively low amount of reserve power. Meaning they can deliver that high CCA for just a short period of time. Reserve power is important for a diesel because of the high current draw of the glow plugs and the longer cranking time and the higher current draw of a diesel starter.

    FWIW,
    Dave

  8. #8
    Elite Member Gary_in_Indiana's Avatar
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    Apr 2002
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    Fort Wayne, IN
    Tractor
    John Deere 4200 MFWD HST w/ JD 420 FEL w/ 61" loader bucket & toothbar & JD 37 BH w/ 12" bucket

    Default Re: Battery

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of the idea of an Optima battery. A local battery dealer handles them but doesn't recommend them (for the money) so I've taken his advice. I think we may worry far more about vibration damage than we should. I've used the more conventional style batteries with no vibration failures, but that's just me.

    I have a couple of questions here and hope the answers will help you decide what to do. First, is there a marine starting battery which carries the Diehard label? Marine batteries are designed to take shocks and vibrations so if you can get one with your coupon it should allay your vibration concerns.

    Second, doesn't the Diehard have a good warranty? If it does, how concerned about premature failure should you be?

    As to buying marine batteries, I do have one cautionary tale. I bought a marine battery from my battery guy for my trailer and it was a straight deep cycle marine battery and inappropriate for the task. They took it back and gave me a marine starting battery which has been outstanding.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member
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    Default Re: Battery

    Gary,
    I'm a little puzzled?? In an application where the battery receives no charge during extended use as in your winch application. How is a deep cycle battery totally inappropriate and a starting battery (not deep cycle) outstanding?

  10. #10
    Elite Member Gary_in_Indiana's Avatar
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    Apr 2002
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    Fort Wayne, IN
    Tractor
    John Deere 4200 MFWD HST w/ JD 420 FEL w/ 61" loader bucket & toothbar & JD 37 BH w/ 12" bucket

    Default Re: Battery

    Perhaps I should have been more clear in describing the battery I have now. I described it as a marine starting battery, which, while true, isn't totally accurate. The battery I'm using currently (no pun intended) is a 1000 CCA marine deep cycle/starting battery and NOT a straight starting battery or a non-deep cycle marine starting battery (if such a thing exists). Let me say I'm no battery expert here and am only going to attempt to parrot back what my battery guy told me.

    I'm told that while marine batteries are typically deep cycle, not all are designed for use as starting batteries. My understanding is that deep cycle batteries (marine or not) are designed to sit for longer periods unused and are designed to operate without constant charging from an alternator.

    The ones which are designed for that deep cycle use as well as starting use are able to withstand the high drain, short use bursts of a starter. A starter motor is exactly what is used to power my hydraulic tilt bed mechanism on my trailer so the match is obvious.

    I hope this answers your question. I apologize for not stating fully the type of battery I have in my earlier post. I made what may well have been an error in assuming that all marine batteries are deep cycle. If that is not the case then I certainly should have used the term "marine deep cycle/starting battery" instead of "marine starting battery" as I did.

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