Frozen Water Line - help!!

[dourobob]

Well, the prolonged cold in Central Ontario Canada has finally done it. After a week of sub zero temperatures (some nights down to -28 Celcius (plus wind) the underground water line to our guest cabin has frozen.
Now I know there are very few shortcuts when it comes to frozen water lines but I am looking for any advice I can get before making this job too complicated.
The line in question runs from the pressure system in the main house. It is 1 1/2 in black plastic and runs about 200 feet to the cabin. It is mostly 5 to 6 feet deep and comes into the cabin through a concrete floor about two feet in from the outside building edge. The line is boxed in under a frame for a whirlpool so it is not really easy to get at. I am apply heat (from a thermostaically controlled small heater with a fan) to the area under the tub and I really hope when I get home from work today that the issue will be resolved as this is the first ime in 3 years the supply line has actually frozen.
Interested in comments, ideas, recommendations (yes, I will dig it up this summer and re-wrap/insulate), voices of experience. Misery does love company.

Thanks Bob

 

[rancar]

Bob.....

Sorry to hear of your dilemma. It's been extremely difficult for many of us this winter in the northeast USA.
My pipes freeze up just about every night now. I use electric overhead space heaters to thaw the pipes.

Your use of the small heater fan may do the trick...but, I fear that with the extreme cold over such a prolonged period of time your line under the ground, while 5-6 feet below the surface, may be frozen solid. I have no easy recommendations I could suggest to ease your dilemma. I would say though that if this is the case, you may want to consider digging that line up this summer and bury it 8-10 feet below the surface in addition to insulating it. I would also consider running the pipe through larger diameter PVC piping and provide a means where you could blow warm air through entire section of PVC to keep your main water line from freezing up. Electrical taping of the supply line that runs through the larger diameter PVC may also be considered. This doesn't help in addressing your immediate problem but could be considered as a longer term remedy.

....Bob

 

[Boondox]

Bob -- Major bummer! Those outside lines are tough to deal with once frozen. A few years ago when we lived in the small cottage at the upper edge of our meadow we had the line from the wellhead to the house freeze solid. It was about 40 feet in length, and because of the bitter cold and lack of insulating snow there was no easy way of dealing with it. After five weeks without water we finally hired a fellow who passed a flexible line down the pipe and blasted away the ice with VERY hot water. (But you probably didn't want to hear that.) On the bright side, it only cost us about $125...and that first shower was worth every penny!

Now, at the beginning of winter, I pile pine boughs over the pipe to capture every bit of insulating snow possible.

Pete

 

[beenthere]

If mine, I would get some hay or straw and put a heavy layer on the ground 10' wide and the full length of the line. This may help bring some of the ground heat up enough to thaw your pipe. The frost this year is going very deep if you are in a place where there is no snow cover. If anyone is in the same situation, but the underground pipes have not yet frozen, then leaving a faucet open to keep the water flowing a little bit is pretty important and can save a lot of headaches.

 

[dourobob]

Thanks for the ideas and the commiseration - frozen water is a drag and our snow cover this year has not been that good.

I came across an interesting <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/icestorm/2000.htm> article </A> on a fairly low cost way to thaw the water line. Might be a tad messy but I think the guests will appreciate warm showers and flush toilets.

<font color=blue>Beenthere </font color=blue> first time I had heard about putting hay or straw down AFTER the freeze to pull the heat up - I thought it would just keep that dang cold in there even longer.

Anyone else done this with any success??
Bob

 

[beenthere]

The earth is warm(er) just beneath the frost line. I figure if I can stop the cold on top, I will allow that heat to move the frost line up. It is what I would do (hopefully try to do before the pipes freeze) if there is no snow layer to insulate the ground.

In years where there is no snow and the ground freezes, then later a foot of snow falls, that frozen ground will begin to thaw from the bottom up. It doesn't stay frozen. Same with snow on a lake. The ice beneath the snow on a lake will get thinner as the snow layer persists.

 

[dourobob]

Frozen Water Line - Update

Thanks for the explanation - makes sense.
Well, I got lucky!! Yesterday afternoon when I got home I spent about three minutes with a hair dryer, reaching in under the whirlpool and going by feel because there was not enough room between the tub and toilet to actually see what I was doing. I was able to direct heat to the supply line where it comes up through the concrete floor in a big "O" pipe and, viola. A couple of clunks and thumps and water was once again flowing in the bath. Whew.

I took another look outside (in the daylight this time) and saw a couple of spots where we may have had visitors?? digging their way under the building and thus providing a pathway for the cold. I am going to get some straw bales to insulate the area as a temporary measure and put re-building and sealing on the top of my "Spring/Summer Jobs in Preparation for Next Winter" list of things to be done.

Bob

 

[gerard]

Re: Frozen Water Line - Update

Sounds like your problem was localized to under the building which means you shouldn't have to worry about digging up the whole line. 5-6 feet deep is pretty deep and that probably never froze. If you can enclose the area where the line froze you can get a low temp thermostat and plug in one of those little ceramic space heaters to it. I do that for one of my exterior walls that has pipes in it. During extereme cold they will freeze but I put the thermostate in the wall, set it for 35deg f and the heater will come on and blow into the wall space. Haven't had a problem since and the heater doesn't come on frequently or for too long.

 

[Wingnut]

Re: Frozen Water Line - Update

did you actually have any freezeup in the spa itself? I had the heating element go 1-1/2 years ago during the coldest part of the winter and quickly drained the unit while I tried to round up a replacement. Unfortunately, I didn't think of sucking all the water out of the lines and ended up with every doggone bearing on every jet going south. I'm still waiting to find a source for them.

 

[dourobob]

Re: Frozen Water Line - Update

<font color=blue>Wingnut</font color=blue>
Our whirlpool is a therapeutic air jet design - double tub with air rather than water jets so, fortunately for us, no water left to freeze in those lines.

<font color=blue>gerard</font color=blue>
Great idea - I'll be looking into this kind of solution over the weekend.

thanks
bob