Range report - DPMS 7.62x39 carbine

[westcliffe01]

The problem lies mainly in poor fit and finish as well as the straight magazine well being fundamentally unsuitable for a strongly tapered cartridge like the 7.62x39. Meanwhile there is at least 1 vendor who makes a modular lower with a specially designed mag well which directly accepts AK style magazines, which will work perfectly.

https://www.mgi-military.com/store/index.php?product_id=36&type=&category=10

The problem of course was that I naively thought that a NA manufacturer couldn't possibly be selling a product for over a year if it didn't work... Well, we all see where that got me....

I became excited about the Sig Sauer 556R with a folding stock and priced just a little higher, but there have been some bad reviews meanwhile about poor fit and finish and ongoing quality issues (some people rejecting the 4th rifle delivered to the dealer because it fell apart in their hands).

So unfortunately, the quality issue seems to be alive and well unless you either spend over $2000 or have enough experience to shop for all the parts and put it together yourself.

Part of the problem is that one typically cannot order from the manufacturers due to them backlogged many months, so you become stuck with what dealers have on their shelves.

 

[westcliffe01]

If you got the 223 version, those are tried and true, people have only recently been dabbling in 7.62x39 AR's and that is part of the problem.

Bushmaster XM-15 sounds like a bargain after the ordeal described...

 

[schmism]

Meanwhile there is at least 1 vendor who makes a modular lower with a specially designed mag well which directly accepts AK style magazines, which will work perfectly.

but if you going to go to all that trouble, you might as well just shoot an AK variant with some US (conversion) work.

You should be able to get a AK variant to shoot as decent as a group as a "custom" built AR variant.

Oh and if you have never seen trigger work done before, Nutnfancy has a series of great gun smithing vids were a great gunsmith does various trigger jobs for him. You can actually see what the "stoning" process means.

http://www.youtube.com/user/nutnfancy#p/search/13/cuSRX92q-sI

 

[Sigarms]

PTR91Inc

The DPMS would not of been my first choice per manufacturer even with a 5.56

My understanding is the latest generation of C mags are the best you'll find for function. From you're horror story, I hope you have the first or second generation mag.

Sig apparently has been working on the quality of the 556R, and I was glad to see they addressed the aluminum frame issue with the steel mags. I may even wait for one myself down the road.

 

[smoothED]

I speak under correction... Apparently one can purchase NEW wolf magnum Berdan rifle primers for $17.50/1000. Wideners has them in stock. Looks like I need to get 10k of them on order pronto !!!

Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC


These are boxer primers......not berdan.

 

[westcliffe01]

Sorry, but C products is no more. The company assets were purchased by one of their sub contractors. Ammunition Storage Components LLC Same stuff off the same tooling with a different floor plate. I bought mine in late January 2011.

My understanding is the latest generation of C mags are the best you'll find for function. From you're horror story, I hope you have the first or second generation mag.

 

[westcliffe01]

I have to say, that even starting with the DPMS, then stripping it down and replacing the receiver with the one from MGI, selling off the C products magazines and getting $10 steel AK mags, one will have invested just over $1100 in the rifle, and that is assuming you get nothing for the original lower receiver. That is still about half of what a regular AR costs from the boutique houses like Daniel defense and the like.

The reports on the 223 and 308 DPMS rifles had actually been pretty good. Most people who had the 308 version said it got better than MOA accuracy. So I have the impression that the 7.62x39 has been their worst reliability failure and the reason why it was discontinued. The majority of the problem being with the C products mags of course.

I don't agree that a stamped steel receiver AK will ever be accurate and mounting optics to it is a hassle. The milled receiver AK's like the Galil are a different animal, but about as heavy as a FAL while only being available in quantity in 223, in which I had no interest. The golani sporters (re-assembled 223 Galils) are around $600, so very reasonably priced, but I carried one of those for 2 years and do not see one in my future anytime soon...

but if you going to go to all that trouble, you might as well just shoot an AK variant with some US (conversion) work.http://www.youtube.com/user/nutnfancy#p/search/13/cuSRX92q-sI

 

[schmism]

I don't agree that a stamped steel receiver AK will ever be accurate and mounting optics to it is a hassle.

I dont disagree that you'd be hard pressed to get a stamped AK to shoot sub MOA groups but thats hardly what the OP posted as a range report. I still stand by my opinion that you could easily "build" a AK variant that would shoot a similar grouping to the OP for far less than the DPMS converted version.

No argument over side mounted optics being a hassle but then again there are plenty of rail options now for AK builds and if all you doing is shooting an aim point it certainly has become easy to mount in the past 5 years.

 

[westcliffe01]

Schism, I'm at 3moa and would like to get down to 2 if I can. I believe that the SKS rifles were better shooters than the later AK's. I never had the opportunity to shoot the Galil with an optic, but I am sure it would fare better than a regular AK, since the receiver, bolt and chamber were more accurate, but thats not a valid option for a .30 cartridge anyway. For 308 I will be building one of the Sarco FAL kits (Argentinian) and that too will probably be a 2-3 MOA rifle at best... If I go with the MGI lower, one can get brand new steel AK magazines for less than $10 at Aim Surplus. This would completely solve the reliability issues associated with the standard AR receiver and magwell / magazines.

I am hoping that my Remington 700 in 8mm mauser will turn out to be my accurate gun with a bit more power downrange beyond 175yds. I have to sort out the trigger on that too, since it breaks at a higher force than even the AR at the moment. At least the Remington trigger is adjustable out of the box, its just not recommended by the Remington lawyers....

I just this evening received 900 rounds of Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser ammo. It looks like very decent stuff. Nothing magnetic in the round at all. Neck of the case was annealed prior to sizing etc.

On equipment, I visited enco and can buy a huge set of toolmakers stones and a granite surface plate for less that $90 so that is probably the way to go (silicon carbide and alumina abrasive, fine and ultra fine grit).

 

[westcliffe01]

Hope I did the honorable thing.... I bought quite an extensive collection of honing stones and a granite surface plate for less than the cost of a trigger job. Now with a little practice and a fixture or 2 I should be able to fix any trigger in my possession for the rest of my life....

This was from http://www.use-enco.com

Model No. Description Qty. Price
399-6638 1/2 X 1/8 X 6 SET OF 20 POL. STONES 1 $36.95
317-1575 IND.SQ.FL.FN.4X1/4 USA SHARPENING STONE 1 $4.05
317-1578 IND.SQ.FL.FN.4X3/8 USA SHARPENING STONE 1 $4.05
317-1591 HD.SEL.ARK.SQ.FL 3X3/8 USA SHARPENING STONE 1 $10.02
317-1594 IND.TRI.FILE FN 4X1/4 USA SHARPENING STONE 1 $5.47
317-1599 IND.TRI.FL.FN. 4X1/2 USA SHARPENING STONE 1 $6.09
317-1601 HD.SEL.ARK.TRI.FL3X1/4 USA SHARPENING STONE 1 $10.88
317-1604 CRYST.RD.FILE FN.4X1/4 USA SHARPENING STONE 1 $8.06
317-1607 4X1/4 FINE INDIA RND SHARPNING STONE 1 $7.09
317-1620 HD.SEL.ARK.DIA 3X1/2 USA SHARPENING STONE 1 $16.98
399-6790 6X2X1 A/O 120/240 COMB. SHARPENING STONE 1 $8.45
Sub Total $118.09

Description Qty. Price
640-0100 9"X12" 1MP GRD B GRANITE SURFACE PLATE 1 $25.95
Sub Total $25.95

http://www.use-enco.com/